Does anyone know a source for replacing ALL the wheels on IHC loco's. The IHC loco's I have are not RP25 compliant(flanges too high/deep). They were good runners on code 100 so I would like to convert if not too costly. I operate on code 83 track now and have not been able to run my IHC loco's for this reason. I would be grateful for any help pointing me in the right direction.
Some other IHC owners have told me they have no problem on code 83. I have a 4-6-4 Hudson and their Shifter 0-8-0. Both run like they are derailed. The flanges hit the spike heads and really bumpity-bump across the switches. The tender wheels have even bigger flanges then the drive wheels. The shifter would be the easier of the two to fix as it only has drive wheels to contend with. The tender could wheels could be replaced. Seems like a lot of work. Easy way out would be to replace with new loco's. But what a waste!
Perhaps it's the different locos that are the problem. We only have the Moguls so, I don't know about the other ones. The moguls have some pretty hefty flanges too though. The IHC locos are good runners that can pull alot so, it would be a waste to get rid of them. Someone must have changed out the wheels or, ground the flanges down.
Caellis - Yes there have been several articles on grinding down wheel flanges on IHC (or former AHM) steamers, all the ones I recall seeing were in "Model Railroader". I don't remember which issues, 'tho Kalmbach may be able to advise you. Basically it involved attaching feeds to the locomotive and slowly (emphasize SLOWLY) apply power, then using a large mill file, grind the flanges down very, very carefully. I'm surprised though, I thought code 83 track could even handle those NEM flanges!?
I am going to attempt grind down the flanges by using a bench belt sander. The bed of the sander is about 16 inches by 3 inches. I will be using a fine grit. I am going to attach DC to the locomotive and have the wheels turning at a medium rate. Something less than the speed of the sander. This will minimize the load on the loco motor and drive train. I will place the running loco on the sander with the belt moving towards the engine just as though the engine was on the rails. I will try very short, 10-15 second bursts, then remove the engine while the belt and engine are still running. I will then turn off both the DC and the belt sander for several minutes as an engine cool down precaution. Also assuring the wheels/axels are also not getting too hot. I will repeat this until the flanges are down to where I want them. Any ideas/suggestions on this procedure?
CAUTION CHARLIE !!! That belt sander will heat up the metal tires on the wheels so fast you probably wont have time to pull the engine away in time to prevent melting the plastic spokes! There used to be two guys who would turn down flanges on their Lathe, but one died. It can only be done with a method that allows the tire to remain cool. Expect to fill your motor and gears with grinding grit also.
I'd like to let y'all know, I've been informed the new premier series IHC steamers don't have the large flanges.
Hmmmmm- I have this exact same problem with some versions of my LEGO toy trains. I solved it by fitting additional tires, i.e. making the wheels bigger diameter without increasing size of the flanges. So, if you can find a tube of metal suitable and a push fit over the existing wheel just off bands and press them on. Is that possible in your situation?
Press rings over wheels? John, Yes, it is "possible" to press rings, or bands over wheels, but for use on "scale" engines, this would make the engine stand too tall, and would reduce the pulling power. You would have to turn the taper of the tire face down flat, then turn a tube out to just a light press fit like .00015" to no more than .00020" interference fit, which takes the skill of a Tool and Die maker, or a Manufacturing Jeweler to do. After that, you still have to turn the outside diameter of the new ring down to whatever it takes to make the flange become an RP-25 size. Now you must turn ALL the drivers to this same exact diameter and don't forget to match the original taper too! It is not an easy work bench job, like it sounds. Few modelers have the lathe, press equipment nor patience and knowledge to perform this operation anyway. If they do have a lathe, it is far better to press the tire off the plastic spokes, make a collet to fit the wheel tire, and turn the flange down to correct width and height, then press it back onto the plastic spokes. It still takes some special tooling, or you have to press the whole wheel off its axle, re-gage and re-quarter when finishing up. (And the gear can get in your way too.) The problem is the plastic spokes on steamers are easily broken, so you can not just grip the axle and turn the flange on a lathe. The insulated wheel on a diesel is a problem, because it simply spins on the axle. Bachmann drivers don't even have an axle, they are just pressed onto the end of a square section cut on the ends of a metal axle, so there is nothing stable to turn them with. When you try one you will find it will begin to wobble, come loose and fall off. Now you have damaged the cavity to where the wheel wont stay on the axle any more. The old Bachman drivers with the round axles, will simply spin like diesel wheels do. Bummer! (Pot-metal spokes are not much better for turning either.) If you only have one engine, and are still young, then it is "possible" to spend several weeks very very lightly "touching" the flange with a Dremel grinder and work the flange down eventually, taking enough time to keep the tire cool. Most people don't have the patience or skill to do this, and they end up ruining the wheels. You have to re-gage each pair of wheels, and also re-quarter steamer drivers, so it is quite labor intensive. People will pay over a hundred dollars for a ready to run engine, then turn around and pay to have it re-painted and decal'd, and pay for replacement couplers, but they balk at paying for the time it takes to successfully turn the flanges. For awhile, there was a guy who made an automatic machine that would hold the axle while rotating the pair of wheels with a rubber drive drum, and a slow running sander belt ran across both flanges as they turned in a pan of water. He had an adjustable stop that prevented sanding the flanges too far. He would round off the flanges by hand later. It was slow but accurate, and not too cheap either. I thought about making one for myself, then do this work for others, but the manufacturers are coming out with close to RP-25 flanges now, so there is not enough market to pay for the cost of the tooling. Because I have about 60 steamers it was almost worth while for me to make the machine just to do my own engines, but I decided to stay with code 100 rail and not fool with it, when I could spend that time running trains instead. You can buy a new set of diesel wheels today pretty reasonable, and steam drivers for around $18.00 a pair, and just toss the old long flange wheels in the scrap yard. It was a good idea John, but that's just the way the mop flops today, so far as I know!
Toolbits to recontour IHC/AHM, and related matters For what it is worth, the wheels with large thin flanges and sharp angles at web are not NEM standard wheels. That standard has been modified again in the last decade, but the "cookie cutter", wheels found on the stuff brought in by AHM/IHC 1950s -70s were not NEM standards. With nomenclature matters out of the way, and if you have hobby lathe ( e.g. Sherwood,Taig,Unimat etc.), there are ready made bits for recontourig whatever wheels one has. Company's serving model railroad hobbyists such as: < http://www.Fohrmann.com/ > Go to tools for model railroaders section, and look them up in index for section. Which is pretty similar, I assume, to what you would do at some other model railroad hobby tool site. Lacking a hobby lathe, and wanting to try it without same? This requres constructing a jig, and obtaining some handtools that you may not own. The elements of your jig are most cheaply obtained by using the struts from umbrellas. Preferably, from a large man's umbrella, in order to get unbent sections or those that can be made made horizontal easily. These will eventually be secured in fixed mode at the track gauge of the track you operate your model railroad upon. I clamped them to a piece of 3/4" ply so that they did not touch each other. NOTE:It is worth noting, that there will be some heat generated, and this means you will probably not be able to pull this off if the locos driving wheel centers are plastic. You also should be aware that what you are about in this method is a quick and dirty method of reducing flange thickness, not an aesthetic appearing improvement. I have done this two ways, and the fastest and trickiest to master used fine grade garnet abrasive cloth sold at places like HARBOR FREIGHT TOOLs for next to nothing. The other used a fine hone , and was slower and more foolproof in terms of limiting the danger of taking off to much metal. Remember, these flanges are made of brass or some form of soft alloy, that can be ground off in jig time by the unwary. The umbrella struts are cut out with a fine saw along the outer side and bottom changing their 'U' shaped contour for the section you will work in to a 'J' contour. If you opt for using the roll of abrasive (do not use Coarse grades, but the finest you can get) cement the material to the stut in a 'J' form , leaving the side facing out that you have cut away uncoated with abrasive cloth. After it sets up you trim the cloth sticking up off and you will have the bottom of the strut and the back of the strut which contacts the driving wheel clad in abrasive cloth. You also should smooth the sawed edges with jeweler's files or hones if they are so sharp or ragged as to pose a hazard to your digits. To use this jig the engine is hooked to a powerpack , sans tender if one is involved, and holding it in your hand and operating it a medium speed bring it in contact with the abrasive in the 'J' shaped strut. Originally, I tried this with both struts set up for grinding and botched the farside while carefully observing the work I was doing near me. So while you can do both sides at the same time if you have a lot of this kind of work to do, and master the "touch"- it would be advisable , I think, to leave the strut that is away from you merely to help guide the work. l This principal , by the way, has been used to make a professional jig using brass forms by people who have reason to work on lots of this stuff. I don't do this anymore, since it is no longer an issue, but used a lithograph printers hone someone gave me, the last time I did an IHC product. It was slower but did not require the"touch" needed to emery down wheels lickety split. You apply the hone to the flange bottom in the jig by opening the bottom and leaving off the emery cloth liner. You can get your hone(s), which are extremely useful tools, especially if you wish to build in brass or other metals cheaply at ENCO. < http://www.use-enco.com > They are a low cost industrial supplier, but sell to noncommercial buyers. Look up hones, toolroom polishing sticks, etc. They, and people like McMaster-Carr, have a far larger selection of of: files, abrasives of all kinds, and so forth, than do WALTHERS or similar hobby oriented traders. In fact, ENCO will sell you a greater variety of emery in all forms than HARBOR FREIGHT, but the latter have lots of stores and are not online/phone dependant suppliers. I hope this helps whomsoever wants to get use out of these early products, but you can always repower and rewheel such locos if they are desirable models (such as the IC 4-6-0 model of # 462 made in both 'O' and 'HO' scale). In many cases these locos are worth spending a couple of hundred dollars on because they are not obtainable at all, or only at far greater cost from other sources. Good-Luck, PJB
Thank you pjb! Since I stopped making engines, I lost track of suppliers. It is refreshing to know some are still in business. Especially ENCO, who made my Lathe. Do you turn flanges for customers today? Know anyone who does?
