Was there ever a prototypical Hudson steamer painted in the Santa Fe Blue Goose (grey and blue) paint scheme? Does anyone have a photo of the prototype if it existed? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Hi Dave, the quick answer is "Yes" Here's a link to a pic for you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ATSF_3460.jpg and another: http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//may00//05-16-00/SF_01342_Streamlined_Hudosn_3400.jpg Other pictures are on the net. From what I understand, the "Blue Goose" scheme was never applied to any passenger cars even though they exist in the modelling world. Other ATSF buffs can probably give you more history and details but rest assured the Blue Goose DID exist! -Mike
One of the first Morning Sun Santa Fe books has a shot of the Blue Goose on the cover. Also see Bill Marvel, Santa Fe--All the Way, Vol I
This note on "Blue Goose trains" was written several years and references to specific N scale models are pretty much out of date, but may be helpful if taken with some hysterical perspective... SANTA FE PASSENGER TRAIN CONSISTS IN N SCALE SUITABLE FOR "THE BLUE GOOSE" There doesn't seem to have ever been a "Santa Fe Blue Goose" passenger car paint scheme as such. Santa Fe Hudson type #3460, the "Blue Goose" was built "for" the first streamlined Super Chief according to _Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail_ but its first run and its regular assignment during its early years was the Chief. It may have been used to "pinch hit" on the Super Chief when the Super's regular equipment was unavailable. The Chief-- which had been operating as an all-first-class heavyweight train since the 1920s became a streamliner in 1938 with six identical sets of equipment in order to run a daily schedule: a train leaving Chicago every day for Los Angeles and a train leaving Los Angeles every day for Chicago. The Chief train set that ran with the Goose was not any different in appearance from the other five Chief train sets that ran with unstreamlined Hudsons. And by the way, the Hudsons only carried the train on the eastern half of the trip, between Chicago and La Junta. West of La Junta, the honors went to 4-8-4 Northerns. The Bachmann N scale Northern is a fairly accurate model for plastic N scale of this particular Santa Fe locomotive, whereas I suspect the Concor Santa Fe Blue Goose is a modification from a mechanism based on the New York Central J3a. Consist of the first lightweight "Chief" (6 sets) (1938) Storage mail HW RPO or Baggage-Mail combine HW LW Baggage-Barber-Buffet Lounge Budd LW 14-section sleeper Pullman-Std LW 17-roomette sleeper Pullman-Std LW Dorm-Lounge Budd LW Dining car Budd LW 4 Cmpt 2 DR 4DB sleeper Pullman-Std 2 cars: LW 8 sect-2 cmpt-2 DB sleeper Pullman-Std LW Lounge-obs-sleeper Pullman-Std The first thing about the appearance of the Chief as it ran with the Blue Goose is that is, except for the head-end postal cars, an all streamlined unpainted stainless steel corrugated side trainset. Any corrugated-side streamlined silver-colored trainset would capture that general appearance, and would do so much more than than a two-tone blue smooth side train set. Now in a little more detail... The sleeping cars and the sleeper/observation were all built by Pullman Standard. They had corrugated sides and smooth roofs. The N scale Concor/Rivarossi streamlined observation (the same car put out by Atlas back in 1970) appears to be a fairly accurate model of this specific car, including the window arrangement and even the interior sleeping room partitions and lounge area. The 14-section sleeper had a window arrangement very similar to a coach except for the inclusion of little upper-berth windows. Since there are seven sections on each side of a center aisle, each section composed of a pair of facing seats that transform into a pair of berths, the outer appearance of the car is a row of seven evenly-sized and evenly spaced windows centered on the each side of the car, with smaller windows in the restrooms and corridors at each end. The Concor/Rivarossi (Atlas in 1970) streamlined corrugated coach is fairly similar in appearance-- it has corrugated sides, smooth roof, has 8 large even-sized and evenly spaced windows on one side, 9 on the other, and some smaller windows at the end restrooms. It could be an easy "stand-in" for the 14-section sleeper with only a minor changing of lettering-- the car name. Now for the Budd cars. Santa Fe got Budd to build all the cars for the Chief which did not have sleeping accommodations: the baggage-buffet lounge, the dorm lounge and the diner. N scalers have had slim pickings in the Budd passenger area until this year, when Concor started bringing out its series of Budd cars. Concor has not yet released a diner in this series but I expect they will and it will probably be close to the Chief diner. All of Santa Fe's Budd-built full dining cars are pretty much alike. Let's hope Concor doesn't choose to model its car after one of the lunch counter-diners. N scale needs a "real" corrugated dining car so badly! There is an alternative to waiting for the Concor Budd car. The Budd dormitory-lounge? Lounge cars as such have been pretty much neglected by manufacturers of N gauge models. The only cars with lounge facilities that have been modeled in N are those where the lounge is incidental to another type of specialty car such as an observation or a dome: Bachmann fulldome lounge Concor corrugated streamline dome lounge (discontinued 1980) Concor corrugated streamline lounge/blunt-end obs (disc1980) Concor smoothside streamline dome lounge Concor smoothside streamline dome observation Concor/Rivarossi(Atlas 1970s) sleeper lounge observation Concor/Rivarossi(Atlas 1970s) heavyweight cafe observation Minitrix/Model Power corrugated streamline dome lounge Most long distance streamliners carried at least one "ordinary" lounge car, or a lounge with dormitory facilities for the train crew (the one on the "Chief" is one of those), and medium distance streamliners often carried a lounge even when they didn't have a diner. There are some N models however that, not specifically based on prototype lounge cars, have some of the external characteristic appearance. What do lounge cars look like? They generally have large wide windows in the lounge section. If it is all lounge, they will run most of the length of the car. Santa Fe had 8 streamlined lounge cars with this appearance. The lounge cars built for the 1938 Chief were lounge dormitory cars-- a little less than half the length of the car was taken up with bunk sleeping facilities for the train crew. The dormitory compartment had fairly small square windows, as did the corridor windows opposite the dorm area. Santa Fe had 22 streamlined dorm lounges including the 6 for the Chief. The window arrangement of the dorm lounge resemble dining cars a little-- the dining cars have six big wide windows on each side in the dining room with little windows in the kitchen and corridor, while the dorm lounges have 5 big windows in the lounge area with little windows in the dorm and corridor. But there is one obvious external difference. All of the non-dome lounge cars have vestibules with doors for passengers to get on and off. None of the diners have side doors except small ones in the kitchen area for loading supplies. Why would this be? A dining car would always be located somewhere in the middle of the train, with some passenger carrying cars in front of it and some behind, to minimize the number of cars a passenger has to go through to get to the diner. Passengers are not except to board and deboard via the diner. But lounge cars may sometimes be carried as the last car on the train, and a way to get on and off near the end of the train is desirable. Just a guess. The Chief cars, #1370-1376, are Budd built with corrugated sides and roof, five large windows on each side of the car, just a bit off center. towards the non-vestibule end of the car. The third of the car near the vestibule is dorm area with small windows. And the one-fourth of the car near the non-vestibule end is bar and ??? ???? barber shop space with small windows. There is no N scale car that matches this pattern exactly. However, Concor's newly-released "Budd Coach" has 7 big windows each side, smaller windows towards the ends, corrugated sides, corrugated roof and vestibule entry doors, which is a close match to Santa Fe's #1388-1389 Budd-built full-lounge (without dormitory). This is not the specific car which ran in the Chief but it _is_ a Santa Fe car, Budd-built with corrugated _roof_ and it _is_ a lounge. At last we come to the first streamlined car in the consist, the Budd baggage-dormitory-lounge. These cars had a small baggage door flush with the front end of the car side-- about the same position a passenger door and fold-down steps would be. I am not aware of any N scale car with a baggage door in this position. Approximately a fourth the length of the car was blank wall over the baggage compartment, another fourth car length small windows, then five big wide windows over the last half length of the car, and an entrance vestibule. Corrugated sides, and since it was a Budd-built car, a corrugated roof. There might be some suspicion of a possible discrepancy in the car records-- the #1380-1386 baggage-dorm-lounge cars are shown on plans with a barber shop. Other plans for the #1370-1376 dormitory-lounge cars run the same train show a barber shop. It seems unlikely that an on-train feature as rare as a barber shop would be included twice in the same train. Could there be a mistake? Could one of the plans possibly be a proposed plan which ended up different when actually built? At any rate, we can be sure of the external appearance of the cars from photographs. And there is no N scale streamlined car with the baggage door up against the end of the car, nor is there any N scale streamlined car with both baggage doors and big wide windows like a lounge or coach. To say nothing of asking for a Budd corrugated roof. However, the baggage-dorm-lounge cars from the Chief were converted in the late 40s (after the Blue Goose was no longer the regular motive power) to baggage-dormitory, with no lounge space. Very little difference in external appearance. And there were Pullman-built baggage-dorms, #3477-3479 with similar interior features, and there is an N scale model that matches them-- the Concor/ Rivarossi (Atlas 1970) corrugated baggage dormitory car. Incidentally, these are among the cars that were kitbashed on the prototype Santa Fe in the middle 1950s to become the "transition cars" for the Hi-Level El Capitan. So much for the streamlined consist designed for the Chief and used in the Blue Goose period. But the Chief also handled the U.S. Mail, usually in heavyweight cars. There are a number of pictures from the late 30s and early 40s showing a steam locomotive on the point of the Chief, a heavyweight baggage-mail combine (half baggage-car, half working railway post office), a heavyweight mail storage car and an otherwise all-streamlined consist. What can we use for the RPO? The only N scale heavyweight car with any working RPO facilities is the Model Power "standard combine". In Santa Fe paint, the model is catalog #8625. The model has a 15' postal apartment, a baggage section and a coach section with narrow paired windows. If the post between the pairs of narrow windows were removed to make a wide window in place of each pair, the Model Power combine would resemble Santa Fe car #2649, shown in the Santa Fe mixed train book, _Coach Cabbage and Caboose_. It was a one of a kind car, only one on the Santa Fe, with a portion of the car built for possible use as an RPO but never actually used as such. The car was used in mixed train service on branch lines. Santa Fe had some other cars that combined 15 foot work RPOs with coach accommodations, all of them used in branch-line mixed train service, not as the RPO for a transcontinental train. A kitbash of medium difficulty could combine the RPO-baggage half of the Model Power combine, with half of a Concor/Rivarossi heavyweight full baggage car, the baggage half of a Concor/Rivarossi heavyweight combine, or 40 feet of a Bachmann 60 foot "shorty" combine, to create a baggage-and-mail car, similar to Santa Fe #2100-2125. These cars with 15 foot RPO apartment were not normally used on the Chief, but they were used on the Scout, California Limited, El Pasoan, the Cavern and the Santa Bernardino intrastate locals, so they wouldn't look entirely out of place. There were some streamlined RPOs on the Santa Fe in the late 30s and one of them might have been placed on the Chief. The Arnold Rapido Budd streamlined RPO is a good replica of #80-81. Arnold Rapido's American streamlined cars were "shortys" for easy operation on sharp model layout curves, car length about 60 feet. But the RPOs were about sixty feet long, so the shorty car is accurate this time around. The Concor smoothside RPO #4021 may not seem at first to resemble a Santa Fe car of the Blue Goose period. All Santa Fe RPO-baggage streamlined combines were corrugated-side until the very last series of baggage and mail cars delivered to Santa Fe-- #3604, 3605 and 3606. These cars didn't come along until 1957. But the Concor car has almost the same window arrangement as the #3401 and #3402, built by Budd in 1938. Putting corrugations on the side of the car and replacing the roof with a Budd corrugated roof (available as a part from JnJ) would yield a close approximation of the early streamlined mail cars. The cars were most often found on the San Diegan but appeared occasionally on other trains so service on a Blue Goose Chief would be at least possible. The prototype baggage and mail car #3401 is preserved by the Gulf Coast Chapter, National Railroad Historical Society, at Houston. The Concor car scales at 80 feet over the carbody in N, whereas the prototype is 70 feet. A large proportion of prototype streamlined baggage cars and mail cars were shorter than the coaches and sleepers with which they ran. But N scale manufacturers of usually make baggage cars the same length as the other cars in their matching sets. I believe Concor's smoothside RPO, #4021 is still available. The car has a small door and three small windows near one end of the car, depicting the location of the 30 foot mail apartment, and a baggage door midway on the other half of the car. Back in the 1981 catalog, this car was called the "baggage car", and there was a different car Concor called its "RPO". It was catalog #4031. That car had the RPO section--the small windows and small door-- located about midway on the length of the car, and a baggage type door near the end on each side. Santa Fe didn't have any cars of this arrangement. A similar (non-Santa Fe) window arrangement is found on the Kato smoothside RPO. I also know that immediately after World War Two, the Chief carried substantial transcontinental traffic: a New York-Chicago-LA sleeper from the Pennsylvania Railroad "Broadway Limited", a New York- Chicago-LA sleeper from the New York Central "Twentieth Century" and a WashingtonDC-Chicago-LA sleeper from the B&O "National Limited". Does this bring us a long way from a passenger set decorated in a "Blue Goose" scheme? How late did steam operate on the Chief? Photos show some diesel power on the Chief by 1941. By 1947, the Chiefs were regularly diesel pulled and the Blue Goose and other passenger steam power were relegated to secondary runs and standby. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Summary of cars for an N scale "Chief" of 1938-early 40s use Concor/Riv hvywt full baggage for storage mail use Rapido streamlined RPO; or Model Power heavywt RPO-Bagg-combine or Concor smoothside "baggage" #4021 kitbashed with side corrugations added & Budd roof added use Concor/Riv (old Atlas) corrug baggage-dorm for baggage-buffet use Concor/Riv (old Atlas) corrug coach for 14-section sleeper use new Concor Budd coach as lounge use "expected" new Concor Budd diner use Concor/Rowa corrug 10-6 sleeper (discont.1981) and/or JnJ 10-3-2 "Blue" brass sides for "room" sleepers 4-2-4 & 8-2-2 use Concor/Riv (old Atlas) corrug obs ------------------------------------------------------------------ One place the Blue Goose might have been used on occasion was the Super Chief. Consist of the first lightweight "Super Chief" (1 set-1937) LW Baggage #3430 Budd 2 LW sleepers: 8 sect 1 DR 2 Cmpt Budd 2 LW sleepers: 6 DB 2 Cmpt 2 DR Budd LW Dorm-Barber-Lounge Budd LW Dining car Budd LW Lounge-obs-sleeper "Navajo" Budd "Super Chief" variations as 2nd & 3rd set added 1938: LW Baggage-dorm-lounge in place of full baggage car sleepers and observations (Pullman-built) from the Chief pool The early Super Chiefs did NOT operate with RPOs. A streamlined RPO was built for the first Super Chief set, but the post office did not want to operate it because they preferred mail to be carried on trains that run daily. The Super Chief ran only one round trip a week when it had only one set of equipment. Three sets allowed departures from both ends of the run every other day. And the Super Chief didn't become daily until the late 1940s. The baggage car built for the first "Super Chief" consist was one of a kind with flush baggage doors and fluting that ran across the doors continuous with the rest of the car. A stylish design--but it required the baggage doors to be operated plug fashion from the inside. The baggage doors were only five feet tall, so that their tops would be at the same height as the tops of sleeper windows and the visual lines of the cars would be unbroken. But baggage men broke their heads on the doors that weren't as tall as they were. It turned out to be a somewhat impractical style that wasn't repeated, and one that would be difficult to model with available N scale equipment. Here is a suggested consist for a Blue Goose pulled Super Chief: Concor/Rivarossi (Atlas 1970s) corrugated baggage-dorm newly released Concor Budd coach as the lounge expected Concor Budd diner newly released Concor Budd sleeper one of the same room sleepers as on the Chief Arnold Rapido streamlined observation as the Budd-built "Navajo" although it is a "shorty", or the Concor/Rivarossi (Atlas 1970s) sleeper observation as one of the Pullman-built observations. _
An interesting fact is that ATSF #3460 was probably never called the "Blue Goose". I remember reading in a magazine several years ago, (I think MR but I have never been able to find it again) that 3460 was known on the Santa Fe as the "Blue Bird" or in its latter years after the skirting was removed showing off its long legs, as the "Mae West". The article stated that the name "Blue Goose" was coined by modellers many years after the locomotive was retired. To validate this theory I have seen articles in Trains magazines from the 1950's that do actually refer to 3460 as the "Blue Bird".
C-C sold a Valley Flyer set with RR HWs painted in a silver scheme and a bullet nose J-3a painted in #3460's scheme. It was unusual for the C-C collector sets, because it did not have the 'one of each' of the RR HWs. Instead, it had something like a combine, a diner and four coaches (or maybe an open deck observation for one of the coaches, I forget, now). There is a painting of #3460's pulling the Valley Flyer in the rain. When C-C re-issued its J-3a, it did a Blue Goose, but with #3461. ATSF had only ONE shrouded hudson, #3460 (but then they also did NYC's 'Commodore Vanderbilt' in a shovel nose with an incorrect number, and they spelled 'Commodore', 'CommAdore'). #3461 (or is it #3463?, one of those 3460 classes is still around) still exists, it is in a park in Topeka (or somewhere), but I doubt that it will ever run again. When these first arrived on AT&SF, the railroad did a test to see how far one of these things could go, so they ran #3461 (or was it #3463?) all the way from Chicago to LA. It made it. It must have needed all sorts of help getting over Raton. They must have had to fuel it from a hopper, as California was oil territory on AT&SF. I am no AT&SF fan, but I always did like the Blue Goose. I wonder if it was the inspiration for that Tommy Dorsey tune about Engine #49 (or was it Tommy Dorsey? That era is a bit before my time).
Actually C-C did #3460 and #3461. I have #3460 from that reissue. The front of the model is accurate but from the cylinders back it is the NYC Dreyfuss Hudson.
Santa Fe's Valley Flyer was a different train, running primarily, or maybe only, in California. Pacifics 1369 and 1376 were equipped and painted to pull this train. Pics can be seen on Vern & Carol Johnson's Trainman.net site at: http://www.trainman.net/valley_flyer_history.html Con-Cor's heavyweight consist is a close match for the cars. Model Power's semi streamlined ATSF pacific is a close match to the Valley Flyer pacifics, except for the pilot treatment. Rivarossi heavyweights are a good starting place for modelling a consist except no N Scale decals are available. Ben
one on ebay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/Santa-Fe-4-6-4-N-scale-Steam-Engine-with-Tender_W0QQitemZ280008527301QQihZ018QQcategoryZ486QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The 3460 was not built for Super Chief service. She was streamlined so she could act as back-up power for the Super. Northern 3765 was to be streamlined the same way, but these engines were heavier than anticipated. Because the streamlining added weight, it was cancelled from the northern. This happened late enough that 3765 was delivered with a solid pilot, stainless handrails, and a stainless brake wheel on the tender. EMC diesels 2 and 2A were delivered a little ahead of 3460, and it became obvious pretty quickly that keeping special reserve power for the Super was foolish. 1 and 1A were subject to considerable rebuilding due to design inadequacies. 2 and 2A worked better. Which means they were unlikely to be in the shop being rebuilt to a form that might actually keep its diesels cool, or its wheels from overheating and cracking, or etc. Which isn't to say they were rock-solid reliable. They were just more likely to break down on the road, rather than in Dearborn Station before the trip started. Since they couldn't place streamlined steamers in reserve all along the route, they quickly gave up on the idea of having special steamers to substitute for the primitive diesels. No cars were ever painted two-tone blue to match. Except for the short-lived Valley Flier, no cars were decorated with red and yellow stripes, either. Rivarossi was no more pure than Lionel in that respect. I don't buy the theory that model railroaders coined that nickname years after the engine was scrapped. Worley never indicated such a thing in Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail, and that Southwest Railroad Historical Society publication was produced by and for members of that club--which included many a former Santa Fe trainman and even Master Mechanics. 'Blue Goose' is just the sort of way roundhouse wags would nickname something called 'Blue Bird' by the company brass. Besides, she was reportedly a little ungainly in person. Oh, she was photogenic enough, which makes it hard to think of her that way. But we're talking about an engine which was larger than just about any other six-coupled power in the whole world. She was larger than any New York Central J, and as heavy as many, many a Mountain type. She was huge, and by the time they put a nice, round dome on the front of that large diameter boiler, it stretched quite some distance over the pilot. I saw her unstreamlined sister 3463 at the Topeka fairgrounds before she was taken in hand for restoration, and these are huge, imposing engines. Try to make something that monstrous graceful with streamline styling, and the result is liable to be a bit ungainly when viewed in person. Add to that the fact that her stated purpose was to provide reserve power for the Super, yet does not appear to have ever once pulled that train, and it's easy to believe that the old heads of the Santa Fe could hang her with such an unflattering nickname. I surely do wish she hadn't been scrapped, so we could judge the effect in person. Not hard to see why she was--that stainless no doubt scrapped profitably. Besides, she was awfully dinged up by the time she was retired. It would be nice to be able to judge if she was just too big to be graceful by viewing her in person. But sometimes something that photogenic is best preserved by modelers, rather than by reality... The Valley Flyer was a rather halfhearted attempt at semi-streamlining. It's obvious, both on that evidence and the fact that the Super Chief was always diesel powered, but did not start off streamlined, that the important part of 'diesel streamliner' to the Santa Fe was the 'diesel' part. Which is hardly surprising. They had passengers aplenty even without that. And they hauled millions and millions of gallons of clean water into the middle of the Mojave over the decades, just so their steamers could make it out the other side. But it's a shame that a couple of the more clean-lined light Pacifics--1398 and 1399 perhaps--were never streamlined in that style. The resulting 'Blue Goslings' might have been handsome, indeed.
For whatever reason it did not stay as clean as the shiny diesels. All that lube oil and coal smoke swirling about I suppose. A black loco would not have showed it as much. Looks kind of pathetic here.
The Santa Fe's "Pendulum" coach was painted in a similar scheme. I haven't tried to study color photos of the 3460 and the coach to see if the scheme was an attempt to match it. Charlie Vlk
Every pic I've seen of their Pendulum, it appeared to be a solid color. I've never seen a color pic of it. The Goose was robin's egg blue over royal blue, with a pretty blue grey behind the skirts on the running gear and firebox. I've only ever seen one color pic of her, and who knows how much that one has faded over the years?
It was delivered in a two tone blue scheme. Silver roof with a white letter board stripe below that, then a light blue window belt and a darker blue lower belt. It did not last long in this scheme and was painted a two tone gray similar to the Scout cars. Then it was given the shadow line scheme in the late 40s, then a simplified two tone gray before going to a solid silver. It ended up being painted solid gray with a black roof.
Info here suggests that the original scheme for the 1100 matched the "Blue Goose": http://streamlinermemories.info/?p=637 It goes on to state that the car was "later painted silver to match stainless steel streamlined cars." This brass model shows it in a "shadow line" faux corrugated side scheme: Info here suggests the "shadow line" scheme was later replaced by two-tone gray enamel. http://www.atsfrr.com/resources/Brasher/ShadowLined.htm
a lot of prose in the previous posts about Super Chief and Chief consists... and what type of cars are actually available, etc... The truth is, the single 'Blue Goose', much more often, was the power on trains 7 & 8, the Fast Mail. Along with the big 4-8-4s, the Blue Goose was considered 'crack power' until full dieselization. Even after diesels were regularly assigned, the Blue Goose and the 4-8-4s were often assigned to the second sections of the Fast Mail.
Yes, the Santa Fe was highly motivated to dieselize the main line. They wanted to minimize water usage in the Mojave Desert. And they quickly became very fond of running power 2227 miles right through without change. Indeed, they even ran one of the Hudsons (3461) all the way west through the mountains when it was brand new. The Goose did haul the streamlined Chief between Chicago and La Junta, along with her black sisters. How pleasant an effect that might have created is an interesting question. In the prewar years, they did not yet have a lot of streamlined head end equipment. Most often, the 1938-1940 period saw the Chief consisting of a steamer, and the ten car stainless Chief, separated by anywhere from two to nine (near Christmas time) old, green mail cars. 1940 saw the arrival of two ALCo and nine EMD diesel units, while the Tulsan was the only new service added. The Chicagoan/Kansas Cityan was extended to Oklahoma City and all the new streamliners grew in size, which kept some of that power busy. But they were also increasingly used on the Chief. The Chief and all the other transcontinentals were dieselized with F units and PA/B-1 units by 1948--at least the first sections were. This officially transformed the Chief from a 'streamliner' to a 'diesel streamliner'. And the Chief was really the only Santa Fe 'streamliner' which was not introduced to the public at its inaugural as a 'diesel streamliner'. Furthermore, the streamliners very rarely ran second sections. Which is a pretty long-winded way of saying, yes. You're absolutely, positively right. This streamlined steam engine spent very little time hauling streamlined trains. Most pictures you see of her in action show a blue engine hauling green cars. She made it down to Tulsa from time to time by the early fifties. She wasn't hauling the Tulsan. She was hauling the Oil Flyer. This suggests one way she could be realistically modeled coupled to streamlined equipment. The Tulsa line was in the Eastern Lines, and very much her stomping grounds. And while the Oil Flyer was no streamliner, it did forward a few cars--head end and Pullman--through to Chicago on the Chief. The Goose, that contingent of a stainless baggage and two or three Pullmans, and a few two tone gray heavyweights makes for a mighty pretty, and entirely realistic, model train. Otherwise, the modeler dedicated to absolute realism is well advised to avoid coupling that particular streamlined equipment directly to other streamlined equipment--no matter how good she looks that way... ...or couple her to the noses of diesels. The growlers did break down. And the Santa Fe was known for hooking their huge and powerful steamers up to the broke down diesels, and hauling them to town right along with their stranded passengers.
Other trains that shared a power pool with the Fast Mail and Oil Flyer after the war included the California Limited, Scout and Grand Canyon. The Hudsons (and rebuilt 3400 Class Pacifics) only handled Southern District trains between Chicago and Kansas City. I never heard of the 3460s going to Texas. The 3450s were assigned to that pool.
3460 leading the Chief (with at least one heavyweight head-end car) in 1946 - a pleasant effect, indeed: http://www.santafe3463.org/
