N Scale Super Chief

Hello all,
I recently purchased the KATO Santa Fe E8s to make a A-B-B-A configuration. I have a few questions for you Santa Fe experts out there.

1. Did Santa Fe ever use this loco config on any of the "Chief" passenger trains? If so which one(s)?

2. Since the KATO passenger sets are long gone, are the Con-Cor Budd's an acceptable substitute (domed observation notwithstanding)?

3. Where can I find consist info?

 

I'm bumping this. My thought is that an ABBA consist of E-units might be rare. I've never seen one. ABBA consists of F units were probably very frequent.

I can't answer on the other questions.

 

Hi, Don,

I believe the answer is 'not often at all, if ever'. (others may correct me here as appropriate!)

Some history first:

The Santa Fe passenger A1A-A1As (E1s, E6s) were no longer used used on the transcontinental Chiefs, El Capitan, and Super Chiefs probably after 1944/1945 or so. The re-gearing of some FTs for passenger use, followed by the big arrival of the F3/F7/PA1 fleet starting in 1946, put the six-axled passenger fleet into the Midwest on trains such as the Kansas Citian, The Tulsan, etc. where their speed yet relatively low horsepower could more than adequately handle the trains.

The reason for the replacement was partly because the E1/E6s (usually ran in A-B sets) all required helpers on the grades of New Mexico's Raton Pass, whereas there were enough of the F3/F7/PA1s in the transcontinental fleet, that enough power could be assigned so that helpers typically were not required.

The Santa Fe E8Ms were re-manufactured from the original Super Chief E1s in 1953, long after A1A-A1A diesels were no longer used on the transcontinental Chiefs. At least in my Santa Fe photo books, the E8Ms were most often photographed in the flatlands of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and in Colorado, where their long speedy legs and relatively low horsepower were no problem. The E8ms were also used on the San Diegan's in California in the 1950s.

It's conceivable that the Texas Chief of this era may have occasionally seen them, but even the power for those Texas Chiefs was normally F3/F7/PA1, as Texas Chief was usually a fairly long heavy train.

That all having been said, I have an A-B-A E8 Kato set and they look *great* on the head end of a Santa Fe streamlined train.

The Concors are not at the same level as the Katos, but they aren't too bad. And keep looking, you may occasionally find the Santa Fe Kato passenger cars in mom-pop brick-and-mortar hobby shops that don't do mail order. Although it was 2003 since I've been there, the 'Train Crossing' in Costa Mesa, Calif, is one shop that had some of the Kato Santa Fe sets left (and no, they don't do mail order, you have to go there in person). National Capitol Trains (he's always got an advert on the back page of Hundman's N Scale Magazine) also had a set of Kato Santa Fe cars when I was at Chantilly in August. If you look hard enough, long enough (probably will take a year or so), you'll come across enough Kato Santa Fe passenger car sets.

I'm sure that Chief consist information may be found somewhere on the web, perhaps others can add that here.

Hope this helps. Happy to write my 2 cents worth.

Good luck hunting!

 

Hi, Pete, good bump.

Because of the flatlands nature of the E8Ms usage, the photos in the books show at most an A-B-B or A-B-A combos, but I also have not seen an E8 A-B-B-A combo in any of the photos.

I have seen PA1 A-B-B-A photos and of course an F3/F7 ABBBBA was not uncommon on heavy trains like the Fast Mail Expresses of the 1950s.

I did see at an NTrak event, a Kato Santa Fe E8 A-B-B-A set pulling a 24-car long set of Kato Santa Fe passenger cars. That's about 12 real feet long, and it looked way cool. So Don, regardless if there is no (likely) prototype, I've seen the E8 ABBA model passenger train, and if that becomes your train, anyone watching is in for a treat. (smile)

 

Hi, John!

I've also seen photos of a rare PA-1 ABBA. But with Kato's pulling power, I'm heading those trains with an AB or an AA.

 

I am working on putting together a Super Chief myself (1951 vintage).

Here is my consist:

Kato F3's ABBA

The passenger cars are all Con-Cor's as that was all I could get. I am being very hopeful that Kato will release a prototypically correct Super Chief as they have done with the Cal Zeph next year.

Baggage<->RPO<->10/6 Sleeper<->10/6 Sleeper<->Dome<->Dining<->Parlor<->10/6 Sleeper<->10/6 Sleepr<->Obs

The Parlor car is a stand in for a Dorm/Lounge car. I also would like to add two more sleepers as well. My friend here local, who is a ATSF expert (or so he claims) tells me that you always would find the same number of sleepers on the front end of the train as the back end. They typically added more during peak seasons and would also add sleepers in Kansas City.

I would recommend the article by Andy Sperandeo in the August 1993 Model Railroader if you are interested in the ATSF Super Chief.

 

Karl Zimmerman's book "Santa Fe Streamliners" is a great source for pictures, consists, and even floor plans. Pictures of most of the cars. It's soft-cover and still relatively available.

Since most E-units were A1A with only two traction motors each on the trucks, ATSF went to F-units relatively quickly with the F3 orders.

The E8's were used on the La Junta, CO to Denver train in particular (#80/81) . The other reason the E's were used was they had a steam generator where an F7A didn't - you had to lug around a B unit to have a generator. So short trains would get an AB, which could be a waste. To get around that, many of the shorter trains drew a single E. Very classy little trains, actually.

Santa Fe would overpower the livin' crap out of a Super Chief with F's. I've seen pictures with as many as nine on the point of a combined El Capitan/Super Chief in the 60's. When it got too big they would split it as two sections during the summer.

 

I, too wouldn't mind getting my hands on the Kato Santa Fe cars. The ConCor cars, IMO, would make reasonable substitutes, except for the baggage car (darn it all!). I also wish that someone would make Hi-Level El Capitan cars. As far as power is concerned, I would hope that larger quantities of F units could be produced (Intermountain?) so that there would be an ample supply.

Just my two cents worth.

 

Sorry, I wasn't intending lead this thread elsewhere. I believe the information that atsf_arizona and randgust shared concerning E units on the Santa Fe is pretty accurate.