Suggestions... I am looking to start my first HO model railroad layout. Being Canadian I was going model my railroad somewhat after the CP or CN railways.... haven't decided yet. I have chosen a 4 x 8 layout from a book but a couple of questions have come up during my research. As a student I am on a small budget... 1. Benchwork - what is the best... foam or plywood or a little of both? 2. Track - is there a type of track that is easy to work with? I have been looking at PECO or WALTHERS what do others think... pros? Cons? 3. Locomotives - good brands for a beginner on a smaller budget?? Anyother words of advice would be great... Looking forward to getting started!!
:angel: :thumbs_up: Howdy Flamesfan! First allow me to welcome you to the Trainboard. There's a great bunch of guys wawiting to help. So ask away and remember, the only dumb question, is the one not asked. You ask what brand of track to use. That's a pretty difficult question to answer. There are pros & cons for most brands and debates about which one is best, can go on indefinately. It eventually boils down to personal preferences & experience. The same goes for bench work. It all depends on what your theme is or what you want to model. Flat land or mountain railroad. What era, early steam or modern diesel. Again, personal preferences play a major part, as does budget constraints. A good middle of the road brand for diesel locos is Athearn. That is my personal oppinion, others may disagree, but that is one reason that makes this a great forum. We all agree to disagree. I've been buying Athearn locos for the past 25yrs+ and am very happy with them. Flamefan, the preceding views are strictly mine and are by no means the standard for the hobby. As stated earlier there are plenty of guys, better qualified, who are wating to assit you & answer your questions. So fire away & happy modeling. Simon
Hi FlamesFan Foam over timber has worked well enough for me - makes for quiet running. But I found it difficult at times to secure the track, especially when shaping the flexitrack. I've used various brands of track on mine - I'm not too fussy about it. But Atlas flex track has been the easiest to work with in my limited experience. There's plenty of people more knowledgeable than me around here. From what I've seen Athearn locos represent great value for money. Good luck. Mike
Hi Flamesfan, Welcome to TrainBoard! We can more easily answer questions if we know a bit more, like GS4 says. Are you wanting diesel or steam engines? Going for freight or passenger? Want to do a lot of switching, or watch a train run around and around? Flat land or mountains? (Mountains mens lots of scenery to build, bridges and trestles, etc.) Do remote or 'by-hand' uncoupling of cars? Want to model any specific era of the CP by dates, or does it matter? Can you do carpentry work close to where the layout will be? (wood legs, and some type of light weight strio wood for a table frame of sorts, the rest could be foam, which can be 'worked' on the spot cheaply, see?) Can you do track laying, or need ready made track and turnouts? Then we can recommend lots. Don't forget the Yellow Pages for sale here on TrainBoard too.
Welcome to TrainBoard! I agree with the earlier comments by GS4 and Watash regarding more info to help everyone narrow in on some suggestions. Although I would recommend 4 axle locomotives if you want to model later diesel operations since you have already selected a 4'x8' layout plan. These units would look better on the tighter radius curves found on most 4'x8' layouts. Such units as a GP38-2, GP35, GP40-2, etc. come in both CN or CP and are available from Athearn, there are also CN/CP subsidiary railroad paint schemes available. If you visit Athearn's website for HO models you'll get a good sense of what they have available. http://www.athearn.com/Products/HO/Default.aspx
Thanx for the suggestions... it has definitely given me more to think about. A little bit more info... I would like to model the modern era diesel locomotives. I am going with freight cars... industry... I am thinking of either the oil&gas industry or lumber industry. My 4x8 layout will be predominately flat with maybe a hill in the corner. I would like to be able to uncouple my cars remotely. For my benchwork, I was thinking of doing an open grid with a 1/2" sheet of plywood on top. Then gluing the pink/blue styrofoam where I want to make my hills and shaping it accordingly. I wanted to stay away from doing a foam across the whole layout because I wanted to be able to use nails to prevent my track from moving... I have heard that this is better than gluing to foam especially for beginners. I will be doing my own track laying with the cork bed. Any other thoughts are greatly appreciated. Cheers,
:thumbs_up: :teeth: Tyler, you're learning fast! My preference would be for the lumber industry. It's well suited to 50' cars & you can use a variety of cars, such as flat cars, gondolas open & covered & a variety of box cars. As for motive power, I agree with Arrow. Four axle (B+B) diesels would be my choice. Any of the lower horse power models.eg. GP 38, GP 9, RS 2, RS 3. I would divide the layout in two, with a double sided backdrop, placed diagonially across the board. on the one side I'd build a sawmill & associated buildings. I'd also put a spur leading off the layout,suggesting a source of raw material. on the other side I'd build a small town, with a lumber dealer's yard & a couple of lumber related industrties & again a spur leading of the layout, as an interchange track.This is very important as this is your connection to the rest of the world.This is just one of many themes that I can think of. The reason why I suggest putting the backdrop diagonially ,is to prevent putting everything parallel with theh layouts edges & there by also making the layout look bigger. I hope this is of use to you. Comeon put on your thinking cap. Tyler, whatever you decide to do,enjoy it . Not for nothing do we call this the"World's Greatest Hobby". Cheers for now,Simon :thumbs_up:
Here's something to consider - driving nails through plywood to secure track is a PAIN! It is so much easier to drive the track nails into foam - or though cork roadbed that has been secured to foam with Liquid Nails for Projects. I have a small HO layout which is a plywood top, and a larger N layout which is 1" foam insulation on a light weight wood frame. I will continue to use foam on future layouts.
Welcome to TB! I use MDF these days (dont know what its called in the US!) easy to work with and fairly light. Track really does depend on your personal choice, and on the availability, Peco is everywhere in the UK so thats the logical choice for me. As for locos as you will only be wanting (or rather needing ) one or two locos I would get one of the better makes, you can get Atlas/Kato/P2K ect. fairly cheap from eBay.
Thank you all for your help... The benchwork is almost complete just got to put on some legs... I have gone with the 1/2" one good side plywood with a 1x4 frame. Hopefully I can upload some pictures... Another question is what is the best material for a backdrop that will possibly run down the middle of the layout? Cheers
FlamesFan, Try to stay with nickle silver track. You may find Peco turnouts interesting because they have a built in 'snap' action that holds the rail points in good contact when thrown. They can be 'thrown' with your finger and save all the extra wiring, but can be remotely controlled later if desired.
It's called MDF board on this side of the pond. It's used in laminated furniture manufacturing and other processes. However, due to its extreme density and weight, and the fact I had to carry many sheets of this stuff at a previous job, I prefer to call it MFH board. Figure it out I have used plywood and foam for a table base and I would go with the foam. 2" thick foam set into a 4x8 1x3" frame is rigid, durable and light enough to pick up with one hand. You need to run 2-3 stringers under the board. I test fit all pieces, and for final assembly I used Liquid Nails to adhere the foam to the stringers. The frame was assembled with screws. Track was secured onto cork ballast. I laid the track down on top the foam, ran test cars to check curves, and then traced around the track with a Sharpie. I pulled up the track, put down a ribbon of cheap acrylic caulk between the lines I had traced, and set the cork road bed in place. I used 8 penny nails pressed through the cork to hold it in place until the caulk dried. Once the caulk has dreid I pulled up the nails. To set the track, I again used the caulk, applying a very thin layer to the top of the cork, and then setting the track. The track was held in place with small nails and had weights placed upon it (That 30 year collection of MR comes in handy) until the caulk had dried. The magazines and nails were then removed. The caulk holds the track in place solidly, but allows for easy removal.
When laying a lot of track, it could be handy to make about 4 flexible weights to hold the track down flat while 'glue' dries. After cork or whatever roadbed is mounted, (following the directions by Cmstpmark above), I will be using 'Cold Draft Tubes' to hold my track down flat. I too use the small flat head brads (track nails) to locate every 10 to 12 inches of flex track, but not driven down tight. You can buy these that are made at Craft Stores to look like a stuffed cat with a three foot long tail, which you lay on the floor at a door to prevent cold air from blowing into a room from between the floor and under the bottom of the door. I have made these from old bed sheet material by wrapping it around a broom handle, then machine sewing the edges and one end together to make a long skinny bag. Turn it inside out so the raw edges are on the inside of the tube, fill it up to within one inch of the top with sand, then hand sew this end shut to contain the sand inside. Make sure there are no leaks! 'Children's Sand Box' play sand is clean, fine enough to flow easily, and not too expensive. You hold the 'open end' and have someone else use a funnel while pouring the sand in slowly until full. It is a pretty good weight and will conform to ups and down of grade too. (It would be a good idea to do this filling outside, NOT in your wife's living room!) You now have a long continuous weight that is flexible enough to lay on the track centered by the rails, and will conform to almost any radius including turnouts. I lay 2" wide over-lapping strips of polyethylene along the freshly glued track while the caulk is still 'wet', then gently lay the 'Cat Tail' along the section as needed. The polyethylene will not stick to anything, so prevents the risk of gluing my 'Cat Tail' to the track. I found it easy (for me) to do one 3 foot section of flex track at a time, lay the 'Cat Tail', then start the next section, and so on for three or four sections. By then I am tired, so 4 'Cat's Tails' work well for me. Back when we used white glue for this, it worked out that by the time I laid the fourth Tail down, the first one could be picked up and re-used in fifth place if I wanted to continue laying more track. They work like a continuous "Beanie Bag' paper weight, only better and cheaper and easier to deal with. I kept my last set for over 10 years, but dumped them when we moved. If I solder joints or drops, I do it after the caulk has dried a week.
FlamesFan, Good luck on your new layout. One thing to keep in mind is that most people's first layout is really just a learning experience. So, keep that in mind, and don't be afraid to try almost anything. Heck, you're probably going to scrap it and start over in just a couple (or at most a few) years anyway.
Explaination and suggestions: FlamesFan, Duane is correct, in fact they are all correct, and are trying to help you get started the right way. Please keep in mind that some of us have been at this many years, and tend to overlook the 'First Steps' that were often mistakes where we learned as we went along. It is easy for us to 'do these things' by second nature, that you need to know right now. It takes time and thought before you can see the 'Big Picture'. I sure wish I was 21 again, instead of 76. You can sure bet your socks I would not repeat a whole bunch of the mistakes I made from age 7 on, but then that is how I learned! Always Read the Label, follow the Instructions, and weight your decisions. Don't be afraid to experiment, just do it on a small inexpensive short time scale so you don't become discouraged. If doesn't make common sense, it is probably a wrong move! If you 'bite off more than you can chew', it will be difficult and expensive, see? Out in the real world, people laugh at your mistakes, but here in the TrainBoard, we are more like a 'Family' where our concern is to learn together and help guide each other toward the ultimate enjoyment of our hobby interests. No one can ask a 'stupid' question here, because we know everyone has to learn some way. Knowing what I have learned so far, and if I were just starting out at 7 again; I would be inclined to make a small board as a test track, so I could learn about laying track, wiring, run some engines, pull a few cars, and learn about how the different kinds of couplers work, and decide what kind of operation and scenery I really like, (that I think I can afford), and still leave room to fall in love and maybe have a family. No one thinks of that at 7! (That can catch you off guard and take you away from hobbies for a while. Its just normal nature.) You still have to keep a job, pay taxes and write your mother, you can't 'play trains' all the time after you leave home, (like you thought you could.) Well, I was 12 when I finally learned to do some systematic testing to decide where to from here? I still have my old board with brass and some steel track and a Tru-Scale turnout on it. It taught me a lot, and kept my interest going for a couple of years while away at Boarding School, and again after I married. During WW II the only track available was pure zinc rails stapled to die cut black fiber board tie strips 3 feet long, or we could buy old left over store stock single rails in 3 foot pieces, brass and blackened steel as long as they were available. Either way, we had to learn how to actually 'spike' down each rail to a wooden roadbed using a guage. Hard times and rationing teach you to experiment and 'make do' especially when money is scarce too. The zinc track was really soft, and if they had not punched little holes in that fiber board tie strip, we would have had to drill holes on both sides of the rail so we could push the little off-set head spikes in. As you can imagine, every where there was one of those staples, the rail had a hump even if we put the spikes there. It was maddening when trying to run an engine that had trucks with solid axles. Only engines with 'sprung' drive axles would run well, but the whole train bobbed and weaved along, much like the real trains of the day. It was a hoot to watch the drivers of 4-8-4 go over humps and bumps like the real engine did! I totally destroyed my F7 diesel by trying to re-work the power truck so the axles could oscillate and follow the track contour. ( At 12 my Dad finally asked me why did I not simply remove the staples?) Well DUH! I never thought to ask him, or anyone, back then. So that is why I sometimes get long-winded while trying to explain some questions you guys starting out, may not even think to ask. I'm still learning, so don't be shy about asking, but do think up questions to ask. I don't really know everything, but someone else will know and will provide the answers. Above all else, enjoy your hobby, as much as you can now, for you get too old too quickly. Yeah, I thought I didn't have to worry about that for several years yet too! Well, those years passed before I realized it! My Grandfather told me the same thing my Dad told me that now I am telling you, that will probably go in one ear and zip out the other...but someday...you will remember this! You will!
Thanx for all the advice!! I think I will follow a saying that my teacher once told me... KISS - Keep it Simple Stupid. I definitely will have to experiment and figure new things out. If I have any questions... well... there is a ton of experience in this forum... so you'll see a few more posts. P.S Calgary Flames set a new home record... sorry, big hockey fan as well. :teeth: Cheers
And another thing: Build a module 2x4 foot top and go from there. It can be your test board, or "Shop Queen" we call it in industry. It is easy to add more modules to either end of it as you become more experienced, and a design and track plan starts to come to mind. Don't feel alone if you change your mind a few times as you go along. Keep your Test Module, and make changes to one of the others, or a new module, just connect them so you can test it out. Turnouts eventually fail, so don't fasten them down. It will be easier to replace or repair it when the time comes. Lay really good track! Keep it clean, and keep your engines and cars clean. As you get more comfortable with building, go back and start some scenery. Let it grow as you go. Over two years time, I had modules all around the 4 walls of a large basement. Dad's table saw was out in the garage, so it was necessary to make portable modules before it was fashionable. Good thing too, because when we moved to Texas, there were no basements down here! It wasn't nearly as hard to throw away a few modules, as it has been to leave or destroy a whole layout. Keep your tools put up, and the floor clean! Work carefully and safely! Pay attention when you work! Watch little kids, girlfriends, wives, and strangers around your layout. They can accidentally destroy thousands of dollars worth of stuff in a flash, or hurt themselves on your tools and supplies. You can insure the rolling stock, but only the actual materials cost of your layout. I have a lock on my Layout room door. Think on these things, I am still thinking of different track plans!
Hope they don't win the Presidents Trophy. That's usuallly the Kiss of Death. Mark in Dee-troy-it....Waiting for my pond to freeze....and enjoying the ONE game we had with Da' Bums from Hogtown. Thanks Gary Bettman, ya bum!
