E8's also seem to have had this problem with the radio equiped lightning strip. Here are a few shots of E8s. Notice the numbers... Mr X
Simple observation. The bolt is facing forward on the right side of the unit and backwards on the left side.
Yep, I just realized that as well after digging up everything :embarassed: It was honnestly some sort of 'standard logo' at some point in time. That had to be placed in a certain direction. As long as the lettering is not backwards in my decal and the engine runs well I do not mind. Here is Con-Cor's email address 'concor(a)con-cor.com' maybe they would like to know. (a) = @ so this way they do not get spamed from spam BOTs harvesting email addresses.
AN APOLOGY Rick; You are absolutely right; it was, indeed, a putdown and I apologize for it. I need to be careful with my attitude. Mr X has had his problem solved - which was the purpose of this post in the first place - and we have had a little bit of a history lesson on the Con-Cor/Sekisui/Kato relationship which may assist us in identifying these units should we encounter them in the future. As far as I am concerned my participation in this particular post is over.
To Jay and all tuned in, No apology needed. When I look back at what I first wrote I'm embarrassed. I was asking a simple question and tried to throw to much into it. Thanks for being straight forward and disclosing your resources. A remedial writing class is probably a good idea. My apologies for my part and next time I'l do my best to "Keep it simple stupid", "KISS". In the meantime keep it coming. Your input is valued here. Thanks to all for your input and answers to my questions. Me thinks I should go hide under a rock for awhile. Meditation maybe? I know Cajon Pass and watch the trains go by. Grin!
I agree! Everyone is very helpful. Even when discussions get a little bit "heated," it is still over all a friendly debate and everyone is always so supportive of each other. Thanks for the help in getting this engine up and running again. Mr X This is my last post in this thread
Lightning bolts I was gong to point out that there was only one decal made so it had to point backwards on one side of the engine. but ya'll figured it out before I got here. This is Indeed an Excelent Forum! May it always remain so!:shade: :shade:
Well this thread inspired me to totally disassemble my old Con-Cor E-L PA1 yesterday, clean and lube the mechanism, reassemble (woo hoo I actually got it back together!) and run it on the layout. Well, it's still noisy as a bucket of bolts, but it's a surprisingly smooth and powerful engine. N-scale has come a long way in 34 years!
A little more Con-Cor / Sekisui Kinzoku history.... Con-Cor ceased the relationship with Kato after Kato USA was established. Kato "went to school" with its first US production outlets (Con-Cor and Kadee/Micro-Trains) with Hiroshi Kato spending summers working with both and gained experience in the US Market with their releationships primarily with Con-Cor but also through Atlas and Stewart. The F units and GP38-2 (the first two Kato USA releases) were started as Con-Cor projects, so Con-Cor was understandibly miffed when Kato USA opened up down the road from JMC/Con-Cor with these two locomotives as their first products. After receiving his tooling back from Japan it took Jim Conway a couple of years to get the missing parts (parts in common with Japanese production and turned and stamped metal parts) back in production. The start-up process was rough, training a new Chinese factory to build N Scale models, but aside from quality control issues from time to time the best of the Chinese production is comparable to the Japanese... with improvements in the painting and printing. The post about Mr. Yugi Kato being a Model Railroader himself is correct. He started out making coined parts for other builders and did build some custom PA units in HO himself. The very first Sekisui Kizoku N Scale products were a JNR 2-6-0 (tender drive with very fine spoked drivers and N Scale-sized NMRA X2f Horn Hook Couplers!) and an assortment of JNR MU cars, and freight and passenger cars. The first track was conventional snap track but soon the brown colored Unitrack was introduced. Kadee and Con-Cor were early importers of the first Sekisui Kinzoku N Scale products. Con-Cor developed a line of North American prototype locomotives, passenger cars, and freight cars (at first all made in Japan but later production of the freight and passenger cars shifted to Chicago, then Tucson, and also Denmark and China). Most locomotive prodution remained in Japan until the split (except for the Austrian and Rivarossi-made items). Some tooling was done in the US for certain passenger and freight cars added to the line. Sekisui Kinzoku also made some cars for MRC but it was discovered that they were made partially with tooling owned by Con-Cor (they were going to supply PAs to MRC but that was cut off before production started). The MRC cars ended up in the Con-Cor lineup (50' DD Automobile Box and Ribside Plug Door). Charlie Vlk
BTW, Spookshow also says that the shells made in China have "glass" in the cab; the early Katos do not. Looking at mine, I think this is correct and an easy way to quickly differentiate.
Let's all understand that anyone of us can get heated and post unwisely. We're a community, and these things happen. That we can get back together again in a friendly, cordial manner makes TB what it is. I have a lot of fun here, and hope everyone else is having fun too!
So my con-cor I got as a kid states it was made in Japan on the bottom, not in metal like the ones pictured but in plastic, no windows in cab, does that mean it was a kato made unit? What is involved in making it DCC?
Mr X, If you would care to send me a PM, I have something Grey and Maroon that may be of interest to you. Gary
OK, so this is an almost ten-year-old thread I ran into googling "Original Con-Cor PA-1" and I noticed this question was never answered. I also want to thank Charlie for his great information he provided in his post which I also noticed nobody did. Anyway, your version is the second generation when Con-Cor/Kato (yes, made by Kato) changed the original motor. The first one was a longer, squatter one with the magnets at one end and pole pieces extending out around the armature. The motor shaft ran between the magnets to provide double-ended drive. It really was not unlike Mehano motors of the same period but of higher quality. The chassis was different as described on Mark's (Spookshow) site. There was no plastic "fuel tank" and the lettering on the bottom was cast into the metal. Kato then made a separate plastic "fuel tank" in the second version to snap between the metal chassis and shell and it has the lettering on it. The chassis was changed to accomodate the new, squarer, shorter motor which had the magnets mounted right around the armature. The basic drive remained the same, however, with the cup gears with internal teeth. The first version was 1967 - 1972? and the second version was until Con-Cor severed their relationship with Kato in the late seventies. Con-Cor got the tooling back but there were some parts they has to resource since Kato outsourced those. They eventually got production back up in China and that's the version Rick has. As to quality, the Chinese versions of any Con-Cor loco I have seen are just as good as the Kato-made ones. My Chinese Hudsons are wonderful. Sorry, I don't do DCC so I can't answer that question. Doug
Adding to my old post on Con-Cor History: Jim Conway did something absolutely brilliant which I wish other importer/manufacturers would emulate: Almost from the beginning of his relationships with Sekisui Kinzoku, Rivarossi, Roco and other European suppliers he had a different strategy for balancing supply and market demand. The initial production from a supplier would include conventional finished product....but with a healthy supply of mechanisms and undecorated shells. With in-house paint, decoration and assembly/packing he could bring out additional models if the demand warranted more or create new Road names/numbers with very little lead times compared to overseas production. The practical lower limit on decorating is a half day's production since painting and printing have to be reset after a few hours for cleaning and recalibration and after lunch break anyway. Con-Cor had some of the tooling in Chicago and was producing much product in the US with some foreign content. Some products had components from a variety of sources....the SD40-2 and others in that series were real mongrels in that respect. Unfortunately some of the best tooling was done only for a short time in-house after the move of production to Tucson. Micro-Trains (and perhaps Bowser and InterMountain in years past) have/had the capability to do the same. This is especially important in today's market where we don't rush out to buy Penn Central PAs or Conrail U50s just to have something new. Today we wait for a particular paint scheme with the exact phase and features of the unit and road we want. We would have another source of fine N locos and rolling stock if Hornby had not followed their European model of yearly product rollouts with too high production minimums for a single release. More releases spread out quarterly would have had higher total production spread out over more road names that would have made more people happy including the bean counters in England. I experienced the same problem working at Kato....the RDCs never got to the planned second run which inluded the nfhtdntfh!@#% B&M (and still get beat up over decades later!!) that I figured as it's "big road" because the factory was still insisting on too high production minimums and half the first production stunk up the warehouse for a couple of years killing the RDC forever in Tokyo's memory. Charlie Vlk
Does the Kato "home office" still have the high minimum production run mindset? If the tooling for the RDC is still usable, why not produce some of the roadnames that have yet to be done (and possibly a re-run of any of the better sellers) in smaller quantities, perhaps based on pre-order numbers? Kato could post a poll on their website as a means to gauge demand for another production run. This time they might only produce the RDC-1 and, maybe, the RDC-2. In addition to B&M, I'd like to see B&O and RDG, plus a re-release of NH and NYC.
For awhile, at least, ConCor was a player in N scale and made good (for the time) products in a timely manor. For the last 10-15 years, however, that train has been off the track. I could overlook the foobies that they started producing (D&RG GS-4s, Pennsy turbines) but they will announce that something is coming out and take deposits for them and YEARS later, it still isn't here (until recently, their website still said that the turbines were coming soon in 2012). They need to just produce some quality product and not announce it until it is ready...but that boat may have sailed by now.
