Layout Environment...

mbshaw77 Mar 2, 2007

  1. mbshaw77

    mbshaw77 TrainBoard Member

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    The good news I have started construction on a "learning" layout. The idea being that I'm not worried about making mistakes as I intend it to allow me try and learn the fundamentals of layout building, laying track, etc.

    I have read many books, articles, websites, forums, etc but have not seen much on what the best environment to build and sustain a layout in, more specifically humidity.

    Do many of you have separate rooms that are climate controlled to help maintain a consistent and constant temperature and humidity? I have laid some track but after a week or so it started to bow out of alignment.

    Any thoughts... suggestions?
     
  2. Mr X

    Mr X TrainBoard Member

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    "consistent and constant temperature and humidity"

    ~ This may be an enormous task to do with out a clean room environment.

    My layout is in the garage. It gets down in the 10's sometimes during the winter and it gets over 100 degrees during the summer. Humidity also fluctuates quite a bit from what seems like 1000% to almost none.

    The thing that you need to do to help prevent bowing on the track - depending on what type of bowing you are talking about is to allow for small gaps in the track every two or three feet or so. These gaps should be large enough to see but small enough that they do not interfere with the rolling stock and locomotives traveling over them.

    Mr X
     
  3. Powersteamguy1790

    Powersteamguy1790 Permanently dispatched

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    I live in South Florida. The JJJ&E is in my third garage which is air-conditioned in the warm weather and heated when the few days that the temperature drops below 40 degrees. I haven't had any problems with expansion or contraction of the track in over seven plus years with this system. The temperature in the third garage is always set at 77 degrees.

    Stay cool and run steam....:cool::cool:
     
  4. L Lee Davis

    L Lee Davis TrainBoard Member

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    Where is your layout located? What type of track? How and what is it attached to? Would like a better decription of the enviorment that it is in. Like Mr. X I agree that expansion gaps should be installed in the track. If your track is bowing then you need them or is nailed too tight. As a rule the track should be floating on the roadbed or ties.


    "Still Training After All These Years"
     
  5. mbshaw77

    mbshaw77 TrainBoard Member

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    Looks like I'm learning a lot from you all already.

    The layout is in a Michigan basement. I'm using Atlas code 100 flextrack spiked to cork roadbed and 3/4" subfloor osb. The frame is 1x4 and 1x3 supported with 2x4 legs. Keep in mind this is a starter layout so I didn't want to spend a lot on the wood only to build something better later.

    I have glued the cork to the sub-base with contact cement. (Actually is pretty quick and holds well.)

    I thought I need to keep the joints tight but after reading you're comments I see I have made one mistake already. I have been soldering the joints on curves thou. Have heard you need to do that on curves with flex track.

    Thanks for the thought and advice.
     
  6. MOPMAN

    MOPMAN TrainBoard Member

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    Just place your gaps along straight track, wire in your jumpers, a little filing and your on your way. My layout is in an environmentally controlled room and I still had a problem with rail expansion in a couple of areas.
     
  7. Fotheringill

    Fotheringill TrainBoard Member

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    Mr. Shaw:

    As in many things, how much do you want to spend?

    Do the best you can with the money you have. Is the expansion and contraction going to be fatal, probably not. Is it going to be a pain here and there and may require a bit of soldering on track joints? Possibly. It is not something that should stop you from building your layout and enjoying it.
     
  8. Tioga Railroad

    Tioga Railroad E-Mail Bounces

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    My layout is in a ground level basement where the temperature swing is only about 20 or so degrees throughout the year. It stays between 55 and 65 degrees during the winter months and between 65 to 75 in the summer. The humidity change isn't really that noticable between seasons either. Still, I make sure that any wood used is painted to try and keep any expansion and contraction to a minimum. I also use extruded styrofoam as my sub-roadbed and scenery base. Thus far I've only had one instance of the track going out of shape in the last eight or nine years that its been built.
     
  9. AB&CRRone

    AB&CRRone TrainBoard Supporter

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    Portable dehumidifiers are available as are humidifiers. My train room, although connected to the house by doors, has its own wall type heat pump that is nice for controlling temp and humidity. I run it when the inside temperature gets too hot or too cold but only when I am using the room.

    Ben
     
  10. mbshaw77

    mbshaw77 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks all!

    Is there a rule of thumb for the amount of gap to maintain and how often to provide a gap, i.e. one gap per every 3'?
     
  11. Cleggie

    Cleggie TrainBoard Member

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    I wouldn't be too worried about your train room environment for your track, small gaps every 3' ought to take care of expansion/contraction issues.

    Small gap = 1mm max (1/64")

    I also found that if I have not run trains for awhile the track can get a film on top that affects conductivity. (Dust, humidity, changes in temperature, that sort of thing) For that reason you need to clean track offen. I use a small rubbing block ("Brightboy") that shines the track up well.

    The timber you use for bench work and sub road bed may be more of an issue. Timber that warps or shrinks may affect your trackage. Although, in your case tacking it all down on 3/4" subfloor ought to be fine.

    Anyway, don't get too hung up on it. You have the right approach make a "test" layout to give you the feel for all the different skills required. And have FUN, TB has a whole bunch of real helpful people ready to offer advise and encouragement.

    Keep asking questions and keep us all posted with your progress.

    Cheers, Ken.
     
  12. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    I have had several N-Scale layouts over the last 30 years, most with 1/2" plywood or OSB supporting 1/2" homasote. I have noticed that the homasote shrinks about 1/2" in 8 feet over the course of the first 6 months. If I lay flextrack (with or without gaps), I can count on having warpage, so I have mounted track with tracknails and never ballasted until I'm certain shrinkage has stopped. Usually I wait a half year or so and in the winter when it is drier, I go through the entire layout and trim or reposition my long runs of track to the proper length for the shrunken homasote.

    Historically, this method has worked well; however, on my current layout, homasote was put down in summer 2003, and I trimmed as needed to remove the warpage about January or February 2004. For various reasons, I haven't done much ballasting, and I'm glad I waited! This winter has been much drier and colder and, in an effort to conserve on fuel costs, we have lowered the temperature maintained in the basement/trainroom by 3 degrees (from 68 to 65). I usually crank it up in the evenings or on weekends when I'm working down here, but the rest of time it's fairly cool. I've noticed there is a LOT of warpage this year.

    Whether it is from the increased cold or the longer time with lower humidity I can't say, but there has been as much warped track since Fall 2006 as I had to repair in Feb 2004...even after more than 2 years without any significant shrinking/warping found! So far this winter, 3 turnouts had to be scrapped because the rails were popped out of gauge (the molded plastic spikes that hold the rails to the plastic ties were broken right off and efforts to superglue the rail back in place were not effective), and several other turnouts have been successfully repaired.

    What I try to do is relieve the pressure in straight sections by pulling up the tracknails in curves at either end of the straight section. If this isn't possible because the curve gets repositioned too far from the center of the roadbed (and I can't reposition the roadbed), then I trim the long track with my railcutters. The warped tracks in my yards had turnouts at either end, so I had to trim most of those tracks. Out on my mainlines, I've been able to reposition on curves more often.

    FWIW:
    1. Ballasting seems to help track resist warping a little bit...provided it is only a little warp, but--even on ballasted track, I've had rails snap off the plastic rail spikes that hold them on the plastic ties (just like happened with the turnouts, above). And, before I started delaying ballasting until shrinkage had stopped, I once had lightly ballasted track lift up off the cork roadbed.
    2. If you ever have a turnout that sudden stops being reliable, check to see if the gauge has been altered by warping/shrinking that pushes the turnout rails out of position.
    3. Whole house humidifiers/dehumidifiers might help a little but require that you always have your house closed...something I haven't been able to convince my wife of any time the outside temperature is between 65 and 85. Perhaps if I could convince her to open or close windows based on the humidity rather than the temperature...:teeth:
     

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