I'm going to be honest here, maybe a little too honest as this could cause some of you a migraine I'm afraid, LOL! Here are the facts. I signed up for this board last summer when out of the blue I fell head over heels in love with trains both of the 1:1 and scale type. Underfinanced and uneducated, I jumped feet first into N scale. I sunk $600+ dollars into some unitrack, an atlas loco, atlas rolling stock and a couple of books. Now, I knew to myself upfront that this was a second hobby for me as I am primarily into RC cars/trucks. I had very little space and very little money. I also live and deal with physical disabilities from an auto accident many years ago. I knew that I was never going to be "that guy" who was going to have any ability or desire to do scenery and that sort of thing. I lied to you guys, and to myself that I was ever going to do that. So with money I didn't have already spent and no layout other than the kitchen table with unitrack, I fell out of love with the whole mess and sold it and never looked back. until now. I'm sure when I tell you what i want to do, you are going to think I'm borderline retarded and I'm fine with that. Some of you probably already think that, LOL! So here we go...... First off, here over a year later my money situation isn't a whole lot better, but maybe a little. Now we have moved to a new apartment and I now have a "hobby room" that is 9x12 or a little bigger to myself to do what I want within reason. so those issues are better. Secondly, nothing has changed as far as I absolutely LOVE trains and I absolutely have zero desire to do proper scenery and I guess what you would call prototypical stuff. What interests me and what I feel I'm cheating myself out of a great hobby is that I really would enjoy collecting different locos and rolling stock, and having a layout permanent enough that I don't have to set it up each time to use it, and just the fact that I like "hooking up a bunch of cars and watching the go 'round the track"!! And if I think happiness is having a door or a piece of plywood that is painted with unitrack and a shoebox for a tunnel I'd like to be able to do it without thinking I need a psychiatrist. I have all the respect in the world for you guys that are part electrician, part artist, part history buff but honestly that just isn't me and I'm okay with that. I don't think I should miss out on those forementioned aspects I do like just because it's not typical of what you guys enjoy, do you? Or do you? I guess I could best explain it by saying I'd like to take either N scale or HO scale locos/rolling stock/track and collect and run it in more of I guess what you'd consider a "toy train" style then actual model railroading. I mean all the respect in the world when I say I don't care about counting rivets, or what rolling stock should be hooked to what loco, or which curves are prototypical, or wiring reverse loops or blocks, or even getting into DCC. But still I truly love trains and just want to collect/play with them. and my tunnel might not be an upside down shoebox, but it might just be. Did that make sense? And who knows, maybe some day when money/desire/space changes it could develope into more like what you are doing... maybe it never would. However again, I do have a lot of respect for what you guys do. I admire it and marvel at it, but don't necessarily see myself doing it Having said all of that. What do you guys think I should do? Cheat myself out of the hobby altogether? Do what I'm saying my heart wants? Do what you guys do despite the fact I know it's not going to happen and out of frustration I'll unload it again? So just tell me what you think I should do and I won't take it personal if it's not flattering, LOL! :thumbs_down: or :thumbs_up: Go for very basic layout but decent size N Scale? Very basic small but fun in layout HO Scale? Or check into a mental institution?
Follow the IMR rule! It's my railroad. Followed up by the second rule. Have fun! If collecting and running it however you want makes you happy, go for it. But don't cheat yourself out of something you want to do because you think it doesn't fit into someone else's idea of what the hobby should be. That's the great thing about this hobby, there is something for everyone.
Do whatever makes you happy. I've got a BBC 79 Camaro. I also, at one point, got into the sickness of "I'm going to outdo everyone else" syndrome. I never got there. I realized that someone will ALWAYS outspend me, and therefore will more than likely have a faster/better car. I finally realized that I can make myself miserable by trying to outdo everyone else, or make myself happy building what made me happy. Trains can be whatever you want them to be. If setting up unitrack and running them in a circle makes you happy, go for it. This hobby, probably more than any other, can be taken as far as you want to go. This is coming from a guy who rarely runs trains, but builds stuff all the time. I'd go for N scale. You could have a pretty decent sized layout in a 9x12 room, and N scale is much easier to sneak into a mental institution than the larger scales
You are the mold from whence the first NTrak member was cast. Find a group, and then make a single module you can use with other like minded folk. Doing all that other "stuff" is a lot more fun when you only need 4' of it. You also have the terror factor keeping the juices flowing, especially if you promise the module for a meet with only 1 month to do the whole thing! Works for me!
It seems to me that your interest is in the trains themselves. I can relate to you in the fact that I despise operating sessions. It just seems like work to me when all I want to do is watch my locos pull a long string of cars around the layout (with scenery though:tb-biggrin:.) A lot of guys I know LOVE to get together and run prototypical operating sessions complete with dispatchers, road and yard crews. I love to build models and just sit back, relax, and railfan my own trains.
Good advise Tony!!!:thumbs_up::thumbs_up::thumbs_up: I did the same thing even though I model HO at home. It gives me plenty of opportunity to run those LONG trains at shows without taking over the whole house to do it.
speedythecat, You may be shocked to hear this, but my layout at home right now consists solely of ideas in my head and some bits of Atlas sectional track and Peco switches temporarily tacked with track nails to some pink insulation foam so that I can try different configurations. I am also on a bit of a budget. I just bought a house in December and we're in that classic first year or two of carefully counting pennies kind of budgeting. On top of that, my two four year old ALWAYS come before trains, so if they need a new set of clothes or something like that there goes potential train budget. How I have been getting my train-running fix is by joining and attending club meetings. I found a club that fits me pretty well in terms of time spent modeling vs time spent doing mundane stuff like cleaning vs time spent running trains. They also have a high degree of tolerance of different roadnames/era/styles. Anyway, this gets me some time running things because I would be going NUTS otherwise. It may be hard finding a club given your disabilities, depending on what they are, since many clubs seem to be in kind of marginal spaces like basements with lots of stairs, but there's got to be one out there somewhere. I know I have certainly seen physically disabled modelers using wheelchairs and scooters at shows running club layouts. Again, I don't know the extent or type of disabilities you are talking about. How I have been getting my modeling fix is by building some kits. I built a wreck train kit earlier this year, and lately I have been working on one of randgust's kits. I love modeling, and my budget allows me to buy model kits and pieces and paints and tools piecemeal but sort of excludes buying mass amounts of RTR stuff. Good luck! Adam
I think you are suffering from what a lot of us do - you see the work of the master modelers and those with hundreds of square feet for a layout and begin to get frustrated knowing that at least for the present you can't begin to come even close to their results. I also think this happens to especially those that are just entering the hobby, and sometimes the more talented and experienced people can be a little harsh on those starting out. The best thing in the world is just to be content with whatever level of the hobby you are comfortable with, and if watching a train chase it's tail around an un-scenicked oval of track is enjoyable, then by all means go for it! There are many out there with more limited time than anything, because skill comes with time and experience. It's probably a good idea to try to start small and simple at first, then as your knowledge and skills increase you can expand and experiment with scenery, more complicated track plans, etc. I know guys that are at all different levels of skills, and even some with no layout at all - they just collect cars and locomotives that they find interesting. I have operated on some large layouts over the years that I had to start as a "brakeman" on, and figured that if I had to do that for months before being allowed to actually operate the throttle of an engine on the layout because the club was so structured and had more rules than an actual railroad - well that just wasn't my idea of fun. I would rather just watch a train wind it's way around my home layout sometimes - without having to wait for the dispatcher, train orders, correct signal indications and so on. There are some out there that can get a little too critical of those that don't build structures from scratch or super detail all their rolling stock and locomotives. If that is what they enjoy and they have the time and talent for it, that's great. But if you decide to buy a pre-built building from Walthers and put it on whatever form of layout you have - it's great if you ask me. If you would rather buy some of the really great commercially available trees out there rather than make your own - fantastic! And if you never want to weather any of your equipment, that doesn't bother me. Just get to doing whatever you are comfortable with and know that you have support! Don't get too wrapped up in trying to get the results of someone who has been in the hobby for 20 or more years right away. Get that loop of track on the hollow core door or build a small 2 x 4 foot module - or just a straight run of track on a shelf-type arrangement. Just do what you like and don't worry about what the "rivet countres" say - they had to start out at one time too!
tstarbuck, Thanks. I'd like to believe what you are telling me. I know that's what I want to hear, but I'm ready to be critisized too, my wife does it daily so.... LOL Ryan 79, thanks. Just to clarify, I don't necessarily just want to run them in a circle, but compared to most of you guys layouts, that's what it basically would be I guess. I'd like to have maybe an oval with a passing siding on the outside and spurs to the inside that I can work with when I feel ambitious. Maybe sometime even double track the mainline. I'd like to be able to just watch them go incircles or run in the background when I spend time in my room, but be able to work with them a little too. But yes, I want a VERY basic layout with some decent size. I really want to try HO scale this time for some stupid reason. I know I lack the room to some extent, but I think it's easier for me to see/handle with my limitations. Tony Burzio, thanks. I can honestly say that is the opposite of what I'd like to do (the club thing). Do to my health issues I rarely get to leave home unless it's to another doctor, LOL. SteveM76, thanks. I think you are getting exactly what I'm saying. I do have some interest in scenery that extends past unpainted plywood, but probably not far from it. Probably more like painted plywood with scenary that isn't exactly proper to scale and is very sparse. Kinda like how people use to set up a train in the floor for the day when they were younger, except I can't get in the floor anymore! LOL Over time, maybe that would change and atleast I'd already have a kickbutt arsenal of locos and rolling stock by then. Maybe even one day I'd be wealthy enough to have someone help me or do it for me, but I doubt it and don't even know if that interests me. SteamDonkey74, Thanks. Great advice same as Tony, but again. The club thing is the farthest from what's feasible or what interests me. I totally understand the appeal of that for most people, but not what I'm looking for. I know you guys don't know that if I don't tell you. That's why I've chosen to be honest over saying what will be popular. I'd say a lot of you probably think I'm crazy as a cracker. I always enjoyed this place when I got into it before. You guys are so knowlegable and helpful and I knew I could count on you to give me direction as long as I could explain where my heads at on this, which wasn't easy. I wondered if I'd get laughed out of town for one thing, LOL
Okay, straight up. I'm hearing that you simply want to buy trains and watch them run around on track. Nothing else. I guess I'm not really seeing a whole lot of potential for being a club member. I also don't agree that N scale is necessarily the way for you to go. I'm thinking that if this is the sum total of what you want--just buying trains and watching them run--then you might be happiest collecting whatever looks absolutely the best to you. This could well be HO, or S, or O. The bigger the train, you know, the better the detailing and painting and so forth, and it seems to me that if RC cars and trucks--which are fairly large--are your thing, you might equally appreciate large trains. No, you're not nuts. Many people simply collect engines and cars. I've seen whole closets converted into display cases for their train collections. If you really want to collect, why not go all the way and be a connoisseur about it? Make the collecting a hobby, and some day you may have a collection worth some money. I don't think your disability is likely to have a whole lot of impact on how you go about enjoying model railroading. I'm "totally" disabled (according to the SSA), and I'm building a traditional layout. It's a very slow and often painful process, but one that makes me happy. What is more to the point is what you want out of model railroading.
Tim L., Thanks. Great advice. I think what separates me from a lot of newbies is that I accept what I am, and my limitations, and know right off the bat that this is never going to develope into what is typical model railroading. A lot of this is because of my physical limitations, but a lot of it is also from an acknowledged total lack of desire to do things what would be considered the right way as I'm sure many of you would see it. I definatly have ZERO interest in the club thing so I don't want anyone wasting keystrokes on me again from that respect. It's just my situation I guess, different than most peoples. You guys have already made me feel better about the whole thing as far as "it's my railroad and do what makes me happy". One thing that makes me happy is hanging out here, and I promise to never post a picture of my shoebox for a tunnel as I know it's kinda like blasphemy here.... LOL . I was telling my wife last year when I was here.. "those guys are the elite yet they don't act like elitist and seem to always be willling to help the other guy". I think that's great and rare in today's society.
The great thing about trains/model railroading is that it is so many hobbies! Historical research, art/scenery, architecture, wood working, electricity/electronics, computers, communications and the list goes on. I've found that over the years various aspects have caught my interest at one time or another, and I've had a ball pursuing each. I did take a break during college, but my house was behind the depot with a view down the main line into town <G>, and of course there was the ham radio phase (another multi-hobby) and the gettiing married/raising kids phase, and..... Point of it all is is to follow your interests and abilities as you go. If one aspect of the hobby gets old, switch to another track! (dreaming of a basement railroad...fat chance!)
I'm with everyone else....set up the track and RUN!! Thats what this hobby is about anyway...running model trains. It doesen't matter if they are running on a highly detailed layout or a circle of track, the fun is still in running them. For many years I had a piece of flex track, and ran my locomotives back and forth the entire three feet, then backed up three feet, then forward three feet, etc. LOL And I had fun watching the engines run. (I would have loved a circle back then! LOL) So continue having fun and enjoying this great hobby and run your trains any way you want!!
There are no Model Railroad Police who will make inspections and fine you if you do not conform to a set modeling program. If you worry to much about what you are doing and not doing, it may take all the fun and enjoyment out of it for you. Like so many have already said, have fun. That is what it is all about. If at some point down the road you decide to try to have fun getting deeper into the hobby, that is OK too. If you don't like it, don't force yourself. There is no commitment. If you find you do like it, that's great too.
Chaya, Thanks. Again very good. The club thing is out of the question for many reasons and I'm going to consider that point covered. That certainly is a good idea about the collecting, but I should have clarified that a little more. I want to collect stuff over time that I think is cool or would be fun to run, but not necessarily "collectible" or worth anything to anyone else. I don't like junk though and would like to stick with what is the better brands. I don't technically like to collect anything since the big baseball card fiasco of the early 90's. That kinda ruined me for life. Limited edition! Only 1,000,000,000 made!! highly collectible!! LOL Now, this is getting to the point it's getting constructive which excites me. Again, it's not you guys lack of ability to help me, it's more of my lack of getting on paper what I'm trying to say. We get closer by the post though and I thank you guys for hanging in there with me. I really appreciate it. A very good point you made on the best scale for me. I have to be honest, I chose the nscale forum because I know some of you guys from last year and thought someone would remember me. It's also by far the busiest forum where I could actually get answers, and great answers at that. You are very right in thinking the big trains excite me!! If I lived in a giant house with a giant bank account it would be G scale all the way (indoors)!! But getting back to reality, I think HO would be the max on the size because although I want a very basic layout, I realize that if you are a lot of the time going to be making laps, might as well make the laps as long as they can be so I'm not "chasing my tail" anymore then I have to. Here are some more questions: 1. How is HO scale in terms of availability as compared to N-scale? I mean, how much product is there, and how hard as it to get? 2. How is HO in terms of price as compared to N-scale? Locos, rolling stock, track, etc.... 3.I can tell you that I loved n-scale unitrack and fell I'm it's target consumer. I know they have a HO line but I know nothing beyond that. Is it as good in HO scale? I know it's not as expanded of line, but lets face it, if I want a basic setup it should fill the bill? 4. I like the diesels, but also would like to buy some steam. I'm assuming HO is a little better for steam in terms of availability and reliability although I know the gap has closed considerably from the old days? I am NOT ruling out N scale just because of the size of layout it would allow me. When it comes to some things I think the HO would be better suited. My ability to handle the stuff, see it well, and little things like say if I wanted some cheap cars on the layout, I'd guess it's hard to beat the good ole hotwheels car if you aren't fussy. I mean it's close to that size even if not realistic.
to train or not to train... hey speedy, to let you know who i am i'll just say, i'm new at this. still collecting stuff, still planning. BUT enjoying the #@$% out of the creative process. if i get nothing else from this hobby, i am able to just do what i want to do. fancy and elaborate (expensive and/or time consuming.) simple (cheap and/or convenient.) or somewhere in between. thats going to be my choice. on the cheap but time heavy. i guess what i am saying is...have fun and do what makes you the happiest. the attraction for me is the detail of the trains at such a small size. for others it is the artistry of the scenes. just be you. good luck and let us know which way you go. :tb-cool: :thumbs_up:
dstuard, thanks. yes, I mean it just seems like if I grew to like something different than I do now, there just seems to be lots of different aspects of this hobby and what one could do with it no matter how basic or how large you want to go with it. RC is the same way. So many different aspects of it and it always amazes me how it means so many different things to so many different people. Just after 19 years of it, I'm getting a little burnt. I guess I was more less wondering if anyone could feel where I was coming from and either felt the same way or knew of people who did. Ultimately I guess I'll do what I want, but would love to feel I have some support here which I certainly now do. makes me feel better. Thanks.
OC Engineer JD, thanks for the kind and encouraging words! I guess my layout will be pretty elaborate in comparison to 3 feet of flex. Probably was frustrating not being able to flex it enough to make a circle, LMAO!! I have enevr really understood the whole flex track thing. I mean I get that it lets you do things that sectional limits you, but can you like, make an entire layout from 100% flex track, or do people commonly?
Wow! If I hadn't of been busy on the phone with a friend talking about what else? You guessed it, "Trains" I might of gotten in on the start of this. Speedycat simply put it's all about you and what you want. Let's see if I can answer some of your questions from your last post. 1. HO has more of a variety of items available as compared to N Scale. However, as you acknowledged, the gap is narrowing and you can pretty much find anything you'd like in N Scale. We even have a few things that HO doesn't. Seems Kato has fallen off or scaled down producing HO scale products. 2. N scale is equivalent in cost to HO. 3. Modular groups are great as long as you are there to help set-up and tear-down. You can operate 30 car trains on a small layout that fits in a 10 X 10. Check out my layout to get some ideas on how that can be accomplished. Oh, and yes I do need to add some pictures of trains currently operating on my Presswood Central. 4. Plenty of steam available in N Scale and more coming. I can't afford to keep up financially, with all the offerings available. I do steam and diesels on my layout. Why not? I can operate era specific or mix and match to my hearts delight. I do practice keeping things somewhat relavent, prototypical and yet freelanced all at the same time. The idea is "It's your railroad, you make the rules", Jim 157. First rule is, "Have Fun!" So go for it.
r_i_straw, thank you, and I hear ya! I would imagine it's hard for some people to get where I'm comming from as it is the exact opposite of what most 'normal" people would be trying to do. I imagine some people would look at it as a waste of time/money what I'm wanting to do. I can't blame them a bit because on some level it probably is. Or, maybe I should just consider myself lucky?? I really don't have a history of cheaping out, or half"behinding" anything I do especially hobby wise. In fact in RC I'm as anal and compulsive as they get. For some reason, by no lack of enthusiasm or lazyness, I just am not looking for what most are of this hobby. I mean I want to be as heavy into it as money allows. From a financial aspect I will likely end up spending more than people with decent layouts. I just want to gather and run trains.... back up in a spur and hook up another consist that might not even make sense. I just enjoy that regardless of how stupid it is, LOL. I mean, the first time I hooked up a K-1 set and saw those little buggers come to life I almost poo'd myself and immediatly made a tunnel out of an old Priority Mail Box I painted with a magic marker. This is a 38 year old man I'm talking about. Me! Then I got the K-2 turnout set and the first time I backed the GP-40-2 in there to pick up a string of covered hoppers and pulled it out, I almost passed out from pleasure overload. Then I sold it because I thought it was somehow wrong, and a waste, and what normal people would laugh at. I've been miserable since I sold it all. It was also very frustrating and hard for me to set it up on the kitchen table each time I ran it. By the time I got that done I was so numb from pain I couldn't enjoy it. I have a big advantage this time as I can set it up and leave it. If I'm embarrassed because it looks like a 3yr olds train setup, I'll just throw a sheet over it when company comes, or say "it's a work in prgress" (knowing darn well it's done) LOL
