Ok, I would like to get others opinions on switch machine. I see that Peco has the dual coil machines that clip right onto the switch at the points. What is everyones thoughts on these? I know that tortise is a well know and respected brand. So I am thinking of going that route, but wanted to know about the peco ones. Thoughts? Thanks Craig
I've installed some tortoise. :thumbs_up::thumbs_up::thumbs_up::thumbs_up: I wouldn't go with twin coil. With tortois you have slow motion, you can see the points moving! Wolfgang
Hi Craig, If you are using Peco points it will be easier to use Peco coil switch machines with them. Peco points have an over centering spring that snap the point rails across and hold them firmly against the the stock rails. I am not sure if the Tortoise would work well with Peco points without either removing the centering spring or using a really stiff wire through the tie bar. As for coil switch opperation, well... they are bullet proof in my opinon, but the down side is they tend to snap the points across with a real slap that makes things jump. Not a good look. If you are going to use Atlas turnouts, then it's a no brainer... go with the Tortoise. Just my $0.02 worth, have fun.
So would the tortise work with the peco with the spring in there? How bad is the SNAP with the peco switch machine? I was thinking for ease to go with the peco, but I dont want the snap action to eventually ruin my switches by snapping them too hard repeatedly. Thanks everyone. I appreciate the insight. Craig
You have to remove the spring. If you turn the turnout over before you install it they pop out in 2 seconds from the bottom. If it's already installed it can be removed, it just takes a little more poking at it.
I have Tortoise but have never handled a Peco. I know that the point will be held tight to the rail if the springs are removed. Q- Assuming the Peco is an under the table, what is the maximum distance from the track to the machine before it stops working? Two of my tortoises, so far, are more than the length of the wire that comes with the unit, I purchased same diameter piano wire and cut it longer and it works just fine. I also know that Tortoise sells a rather complicated looking adapter kit for placment of the machine somewhat far away from the track. Does Peco have the same?
Craig: I may have over stated the slap effect, while noticable and audible it is not enough to any damage to your turnouts. It will make any loose ballast near your turnout dance a bit though.
Ken, so the Peco machines are ok to use you think? Do they come with any kind of button to activate them, or do you just go to radio shack and purchase a momentary on off switch? What about the low amperage units? Do you use those? Thanks for all the help everyone. Craig
The Peco machines attach directly to the underside of the turnout and thus require a fair sized cutout in the roadbed. The Tortoise is physically larger, but can mount beneath the roadbed with only a small hole for the actuating wire to stick through. If you have to replace a switch machine, I would submit that it would be easier with a Tortoise. Also, there are other creative ways of mounting Tortoises remotely that would be more difficult with the Peco. As to powering the things, you would need momentary switches or a capacitor discharge unit for any twin coil machine. For a Tortoise, a regular SPDT toggle can be used or any of a number of DCC stationary decoders. A Tortoise only draws about 10-15 ma continuously, which can also be used to light a bi-color indicator LED wired in series with the motor. Did I say I am partial to Tortoises?? <G>
Craig: On my last layout I used Peco turnouts and switch machines with no problems, but as Doug points out larger cutouts are required in your sub-roadbed. You can mount the Peco switch machines under the layout and extend the pin through (solder an extension onto the existing pin). To get the best performance from the switch machines you need a 24VAC power suppy run through a capacitator discharge system and momentary on switches. I bit more of a hassle to wire up than Tortoise, you need to work out the numbers and the factor in the cost and work out which is the cheapest way to go. I'm not sure of the amps, low I woud think? I have just instaled two Peco curved turnouts on my present layout and removed the centering spring so I can use Tortoise machines. No hassle, remove a clip on the top behind the tie bar to expose the centering spring.
Using the BCD turnout control circuit a gentle "snap" is produced. Sure saves on turnout life and alignment. It's really inexpensive. Less than $3 per turnout. However, if money is no object, then the Tortise is the best. Ray
I am using the Tortoise on my new layout, but am hand laying code 70 turnouts and want a machine that is gentle with the track work. For your Peco turnouts the Peco twin coil maching is perfect. You need the "decisive" trow of a twin-coil machine to properly hold the point rails firmly agains the stock rail. Peco is a good call because it snaps into the underside of the turnout to engage the throw mechanism. The only thing you have to do is cut out the appropriate size hole in your benchwork to accept the peco machine. Good luck....
If you have Peco switches, go with the Peco switch machines, otherwise, use the Tortise. Welcome to Trainboard edstrains!!!!
Craig, 1. I have used Peco turnouts for years with turnout coils without any major issues however, I have found that they work more reliably when using a capacttive discharge (CD) unit. I built my own CD unit that "slapped" the coil with 48 volts for only a couple of milliseconds. The movement was quick and positive. I did however not like the "slapping or snapping" of the switches when shifting since it created much vibration and was loud. On my new layout, I stayed with the Peco units for their past reliability but switch them with Tortise motors. This requires the removal of the over center spring on the Peco turnouts since the stall motor characteristics of the Tortise machines provides the holding power to keep the point rails tight to the stock rails. I did however, experience unexpected issues with these turnouts when modified for Tortise control. It seems to me that the over center spring also provides pressure on the points to hold them tight to the pivot hinges as well as preessure on the points to the stock rails. Removal of the spring will likely cause reliability issues since they were designed and engineered for the use of the spring. If you are going to be using Tortise motors, you will also have to position the motor so the actuating wire provided a positive pressure on the points in order to hold them in position against the pivot point. One of my turnouts required the gluing of a rubbing block to hold the tie bar and points against the pivot points. I just posted a thread requesting any information on this as well. 2. If you wish to stay with the Peco coil motors, you can eliminate the large, unsightly cutout needed for the coil machine as follows: a. Cut a slot under the turnout for the throw bar wire using a Zip tool or some other tool of choice. b. Bend the mounting ears on the turnout coil harness 90 degrees. This will give you "spade" shaped mounting tabs. c. use a pan head screw and a washer if needed to mount the coil harness by driving the screw up between the new spade ears. 3. If you stay with coil actuators and use push button switches, use push buttons that have at least a 6 Amp. contact rating. Unless you are using a CD unit and triggering a low amp device such as a S.C.R., do not use the cheap push button variety sold by Radio Shack. Coils have a very high inrush current that although very brief, will cook low amperage contacts quickly.
Peco makes extended pin motors for their under table mounting system. All that is required is a hole for the pin to move back and forth.
