Well... it's happened... I've become terminally infected with the DCC virus. What's worse, it's the most virulant strain... the one that includes sound. Yeah... only a few months ago I was perfectly happy with my ordinary DC engines without sound. The PCM E7's didn't really get me enthused either... in fact... I was becoming less receptive to sound at that point. Unfortunately... I bought the Athearn Challenger... and kept buying them... one after another... after another. Even got (heaven help me) the Union Pacific versions mg:. Now... MRC has come out with a drop-in dual-mode DCC sound decoder for Kato F3's... I'm doomed for sure! I was resistant to DCC before... but... the sound eventually got to me. Perhaps it was the beautiful Challenger that broke my will. But now I will almost certainly go into full blown, dive in head-first mode to convert as many engines to DCC with sound. My concerns are the cost... of course. The DCC sound decoders are very expensive... and I am cost averse. The other fear is longevity of the technology... will the new decoders be outdated by the time I buy them (like the computers)? Are they going to be reliable and durable? I'd hate to spend $65.00 to $100.00 for something that fries itself after a few uses. Technology is such a great thing... but... it comes at a price. Most of us can figure out when something goes wrong with our DC engines... but... if a DCC unit goes on the fritz... most of us 'DCC newbies' probably have to rely on some techno-geek model railroader (I say that endearingly ) to bail us out... or we just have to buy a new replacement gizmo. So... I'll be installing some new sound decoders in my Kato F3's soon... Anyone out there have any advice on the correct way to do this... allegedly easy... drop-in job? Wish me luck... I'll need it.
I've never installed a sound decoder... yet. My friend at the LHS says that you don't want the $65 decoders. I know the better decoders allow you to upload sound "projects" to tailor the sounds to your loco. Someone on here mentioned that you can get sound projects for some decoders from the Yahoo group... of which I'm not a member... yet. I'm excited about the drop-in decoder for the Kato F3s also... but they haven't shipped yet. What I don't understand is why they have a non-sound drop-in for all Kato Fs but specify that the sound decoder is for F3s only. I emailed them and the tech who responded said he wasn't sure the mechanisms were the same. Digitrax lists their 163K0b as a drop-in decoder for the F3s. One of the first N Scale locos I bought was an F7 and the dealer put in a Digitrax drop-in decoder. I've opened it up and checked, the circuit board has 163K0 on it... no letter following, and Digitrax doesn't have a .pdf download for a 163K0 without a letter. I thought perhaps it was a discontinued decoder. I guess the thing to do is get one of the F3 sound decoders and try it in an F7. I've added another F7A and two F7Bs to my collection that still lack decoders. If it doesn't fit I have an F3 waiting for it anyway.
I am afraid it is very contagious. Untill now I have been sitting on the fence. We had a club meeting/clinic last Sunday on installing DCC and I heard my first F3, SD70MAC and P42. I now have decoders for six F3s, 3 P42's and a SD70 MAC ordered just to start with.
Calzephyr; The Kato F mechanism uses a lightboard that clips to the frame with a little plastic clip just behind the front flywheel. The clip holds the motor contacts to the board. Carefully remove the clip... they are one of those parts that tends to fly away if you're not careful. Then bend the motor contact tabs vertical and lift out the board. You'll have to put Kapton tape around the copper rails that run to the truck wipers to insulate them from the motor contact tabs (this is the only loco I've ever seen that runs the rails on top of the frame instead of the bottom). Place the decoder above the frame and slide it down between the motor contact tabs. Bend the contact tabs back down over the decoder contacts and replace the plastic clip. Test it thoroughly before putting the shell back on. When the dealer did my F7 I had to take it back twice. It would run for 10 min. or so and then die. The dealer finally soldered the motor contact tabs and its been fine since. I just tried to upload pictures of the mechanisms... original and the one with the Digitrax decoder. Got error messages: Warning: move_uploaded_file(/tmp/phpud2VAb) [function.move-uploaded-file]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/frisco/public_html/railimages/image-inc.php on line 49 Warning: move_uploaded_file() [function.move-uploaded-file]: Unable to move '/tmp/phpud2VAb' to '/home/frisco/public_html/railimages/uploads/9675/IMG_0020.JPG' in /home/frisco/public_html/railimages/image-inc.php on line 49 :tb-wacky:
I haven't seen the F3 decoders or the instructions. But the installation may be similar to installing MRC 1645's in a Kato E8 in that the "bumps" on the plastic frame that supports the light board have to be trimmed off in order for the MRC decoder to fit. Trimming them is easy but the loco then will only accept the MRC decoder. You can't return the light board or any other brand of decoder without restoring the bumps by gluing styrene or some other method. I did not like the lack of BEMF in the MRC decoder so I reinstalled Digitrax decoders after restoring the bumps. The sound of the MRC 1645 was acceptable although it was NOT E8 sound. It is the sound of a more modern loco, I forget which one. MRC will have to considerably improve their decoders before I buy another. Ben
I have two sound equipped lokeys, a pair of Kato SD45s. One sounds really great! Another one I can't hear except with a stethoscope. Identical MRC units, I thought, but close check shows the speakers are different. Then, after a couple of tries, the working lokey will go from sitting still to a mad cap, full power zoom to death! If I do manage to catch it, the sound is off until you reset everything. BAH!
There are no plastic bumps to be trimmed. Too bad my photo uploads didn't work. Can you post a photo of your E8 with the decoder installed? Best! Lownen
Sounds like my experience with MRC decoders. Save your money Calzephyr, until somebody besides MRC comes out with n scale sound.
I haven't really looked at the sound system on the Challenger. I've heard it, and it's better than I expected. I suspect that there are technologies that produce sound without speakers as we commonly think of them, just as there are technologies that produce light in non-intuitive ways. I also suspect they are many years away from N scale.
Mailman... Kind-of late now... the decoders have arrived. Lownen... thanks for the tips on installation. Tony... I like the 'flying Rio Grande'... but I hope my Rio Grande F3's aren't going to literally 'fly-off' the track with these decoders. I'm a bit concerned now that I've received so many negative responses to the MRC product. I hope that I don't end-up with a bunch of 'loco lokies'. BTW: According to the instruction sheet accompanying the decoder: In DCC operation - The decoder has four types of prime diesel rumble. You can use the F12 to select different diesel rumble. The factory default setting is authentic F diesel sound. In DC operation - This decoder provides four sets of synchronized true diesel rumble sound; HOWEVER, with DC operation you can only access one set of rumble, AND, you cannot control bells, horns etc. We recommend using an MRC Blackbox for your DC operation. It will enable the full range of sounds on a DC system.
This thread from MTaylor really doesn't help to promote MRC decoders at all.... http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=89651
Catching The sound bug or dcc bug for that matter equats to back when my wife years ago bought me CD player,that same day the turntable became a relic, out went the records and I started buying CDs. There is no turning back when you enter the new age I will stay away from sound and DCC. It will only cause me to spend more money to upgrade all those old locos or just buy new ones equipped with the whistles. It's a good deal for the newbee entering the world of Model trains to start out with dcc and sound but I'm not going to go in catch-up phase again.
I'm thinking of trying something I read that they do at the train shows; running DC on the outer loop and DCC on the inner loops.
It certainly will cause some changes in the direction of available funds. I am now wondering how many lokies will get the upgrade... I can't do them all. The most likely candidates will the the Rio Grande, Western Pacific and Burlingtons(CB&Q); because they were associated with the California Zephyr. Also... there are many which cannot be converted because an adequate (= easy to install) alternative does not exist. I'd hate to spend money on a regular DCC board, only to have a good DCC sound board come out soon after. Also... there are some engines which may never be fully DCC/sound compatible because of their diminuative dimensions. Before the Challenger... I would have been right in there agreeing with this comment. I still think that new model railroader is the most likely place where this technology will find acceptance. The problem is that it still costs a fortune... and not everyone can dive into the initial expense. An inexpensive DCC system with a few DCC/sound decoders in a half dozen engines will cost nearly $1,000. NOT... normally an entry level amount to spend for 'newbie' model railroaders; and, that doesn't include rolling stock, track, structures and the construction of benchwork or wiring. It is a lot easier for someone who only has 20 or fewer engines to slowly 'buy into' the new technology. When you have 10x that amount of engines... it can be painfully evident that you may have to choose your favorites... and dispose of... or never run... the others.
I confess that I'm of the "peace and quiet" branch of model railroading. I find that the sound systems detract from my enjoyment of the hobby. On the bright side, look at all the money I'm saving
I might be back... IF... ... this purchase of MRC decoders ends up becoming a hassle due to malfunctioning or inadequate sound. It could put me back into the 'peace & quiet' branch forever. I certainly don't like paying for aggravation.
