Value of old Con-Cor Kato engines

christoph Feb 3, 2008

  1. christoph

    christoph TrainBoard Member

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    Looking at Russell's thread about the S-2 gears, I remember that I still have some Con-Cor SW1500 and PA with Kato drives, plus some Con-Cor China-built engines.
    My question is: do they have a substantial (i.e. collector) value or is it O.K. to use them for parts. If I see the prices at the German eBay, American models don't bring that much money (which is why I frequently buy there used engines and cars quite cheaply).

    I don't want to start a sales advertising, but just don't want to make a mistake and scrap a model that would be of high value to others. But it might be better to use old models for parts than to buy these parts, plus shipping, etc...
     
  2. AB&CRRone

    AB&CRRone TrainBoard Supporter

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    Collector value is enhanced by many times if it is a new and unrun engine. Unless it is as rare as hen's teeth there is not much collector value to a used one. The Kato built engine can be the superior one, unless completely used up, and be sought by runners.

    I would suggest the opposite to what you propose. Get the Kato built engine running well and use the newer ones for parts.


    Ben
     
  3. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I would consider an Atlas or Con Cor, Kato combo as a real find. Some of these units combined the best of both worlds. Looking at them as collectable or a collector's item...not yet. Time may change that but a good running locomotive is certainly worth a fair price. You can still replace the old motors with parts available from Kato. I'd say if you have one hang onto it, restore it, detail it and enjoy it.

    Have fun!
     
  4. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    A few years ago I discovered that the mechanisms under some old ConCor stuff was Kato. They are enjoying new life under more highly detailed Kato shells.
     
  5. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    I have some very old Con Cor Sekisui Kinzoku (Kato) PAs with open frame motors in them. They are hardly "state of the art" mechanisms and the shells are not as accurate as the new Kato one that I replaced them with. They were the best thing going back in 1969 when I got them but are parts supplies now as far as I am concerned.
     
  6. ben scaro

    ben scaro TrainBoard Member

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    I would say ‘parts’ but you never know what collectors (or historians like Mark Peterson!) might pay for some of these things.

    From measuring the original ConCor PA a few years ago, although it was very nice work I don’t think it had trucks of prototypical length. They were maybe a foot under, not sure why exactly. On these units the pilot is attached to the truck and not the loco body, so clearance for truck swing on curves cannot have been an issue.

    I think the LL one was more accurate, not sure about the later Kato.

    Those minor issues aside, that old Con-Cor PA was a superb mech. I saw original ‘Seksui’ ones from 1969 soldiering on a couple of years ago under scratchbuilt New Zealand and Queensland Railways English Electric cab units in TT scale! Still working like Swiss watches 35 years down the track.

    As for awful things like the ConCor ‘C636’, though, it’s an inaccurate shell released over the years on two awful mechanisms –the earlier one being an old Mehanotechnika – with all the technical excellence which that name implies (!)

    The later mech was some doozy ConCor did, made up from bits from Roco/Mabuchi and it also caused no end of trouble. It had shortish 6’+6’ trucks which made it a bit weird so if you’re modelling an odd prototype its trucks may be of use.

    I had two ConCor SD40-2s and they were awful - the cab construction and handrails were ‘old school’ - no advance at all from the old Mehanotechnika SD45, circa 1969. Yuk.

    Ben
     
  7. christoph

    christoph TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you all for your advice. I think it will be the best to put them in the parts-box. Especially since the original "Kato-Cor" PAs are "PRR mint-green", which is beyond comment.
    These "models" are remains from the pre-internet days, when I had to make blind orders.
     
  8. oldrk

    oldrk TrainBoard Supporter

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    As far as value is concerned I feel watching them sell on ebay is the best way to decide if they are in the collector class. As an example some old C&O lonestar treble O stuff just sold on ebay. The engine is basically a piece of crap toy but brought $60. But it is rare and a part of N scale history.
     
  9. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'm saving mine for some project someday when I need a C-C mechanism. The powered A units kept me in N scale back in the early 70s. The pale pink PRR dummy B-unit has already donated its wheels to another project--powering a Big Boy tender. The Con-Cors seem to be less bulky than the Katos or LLs. I haven't put a micrometer on them, and I don't know which is correct. I snapped up every Kato unit I could on eBay when they were cheap--great runners, but very fussy over any flaw in my track.
     
  10. AB&CRRone

    AB&CRRone TrainBoard Supporter

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    You must have started buying C-C by Kato earlier than me. My first was a Santa Fe PA with 3-part split frame. A terrific runner, I'd still be running it if I had not run it through a pile of static grass left unvacuumed. The PB was unpowered but the PA pulled well enough not to need power from the B. I put the shells on newer C-C China mechanisms but their running was not near as satisfactory.

    Then there is the Kato built Hudson that is probably my best running passenger steam. I'd put it on a par with the Mikados runningwise. Not the original without tender pickup but a later incarnation. Recently had a sound decoder installed and she is still going strong. The NYC loco shell has been altered to a pseudo-ATSF look. It needs a slanted front cab but I haven't tackled that yet. The tender is a bashed square oil tender wearing No. 3463.

    But I never met a Kato built anything I didn't like. :tb-wink:


    Ben
     
  11. johnh

    johnh TrainBoard Member

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    Another Kato built lokie from the olden days is the U50. My brother has one from the early-mid 70s and it is smoooooth running.
     
  12. Bob Morris

    Bob Morris TrainBoard Supporter

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    I was going to use my old original Con-Cor/Kato E-L PA under a newer Life Like shell for nostalgia reasons when I first got back into N Scale (was going to body mount the couplers). I found a used LL engine for $18 on eBAY. I cleaned up the original mechanism, lightly oiled it and ran it around a test track. Then I ran the "new" LL. The Con-Cor/Kato went back into it's box and hasn't been back out. I've since gotten a matched set of the LL's and another matched set of new Kato E-L PA's. The new Kato's are a little smoother and a little quieter than the LL's, but the LL's are very good runners. Compared to the old mechanism...well there is not comparison. N Scale has come a LOOOOOOONG way since the Con-Cor PA's were state of the art!
     
  13. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have an old Con Cor PA - ABBA - 1 powered A, BBA unpowered - Daylight
    Still runs. wheels squeak on the dummy units.
    I don't care about the detail since I can't see it anyway.
     
  14. subwayaz

    subwayaz TrainBoard Member

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    I can go along with that I have an old Kato /C-C, brand new I test run it once and smooth, quiet,and very good low speed runner. inspite of two tag a long trucks.
     
  15. randgust

    randgust TrainBoard Member

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    The Con-Cor SW1500 is kinda a cludge - the original Rivarossi body shell dating back to 1969 and either the Rivarossi mechanism or the replacement Kato mechanism. The Kato mechanism would be OK if it had better electrical pickup. If you can keep the metal-on-metal contacts clean it's OK, but they oxidize up fairly quickly. The body shell is a POS but I've had great success on converting them to SW1's with a new resin shell - thanks to Richie for blazing the way there. I've been getting them for $20 used; that's really all they are worth.

    The really well-engineered stuff from Kato like the 4-6-4, the PA1, the U50 - have kept their fans pretty well. Heck, I'd like a good 4-6-4. The stuff Con-Cor inherited from Rivarossi is not much better than old Atlas; the Yugo stuff they had like the C636 was memorably bad unless you enjoy repowering and redetailing it. Seems to me they also did a metal F3 off a Fleishmann mechanism that was memorably out of scale and bad, too. So it's a real mixed bag there.
     
  16. J Long

    J Long E-Mail Bounces

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    I tried to buy some CC 86 ft hy cubes on ebay a few weeks ago. There were several listed. However, I tangled with snipers on each aution and lost. 30 bucks was as high as I would go. I bought one of these hy cubes three years ago from an internet dealer for $18.
     
  17. oldrk

    oldrk TrainBoard Supporter

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