I was wanting to get a few peoples opinions about the PA1s from life like. is it like the E8s that they produced. i have several of those, mostly due to the fact that they run great and pull a ton. thanks for any insight. Travis
I don't know how much they pull, but I was just watching a LL PA1 run at my LHS test track last week. It was a little noisey, but tolerable. I have definately heard worse (coffee grinders). I commented on the noise so he oiled it and it was even quieter. One thing I was impressed with was the smooth slow speed from a brand new one right out of the box. After breakin I bet it's a real smooth runner.
I have the much older PAs made by Kato from way back when and they weight a ton, have all axles geared, and will pull up the top of the layout if not securely nailed down. Just got a unit from LL and again weight is close, maybe a little lighter, two axles per truck geared VS the Kato 3 axles geared per truck, still pull a ton, and has a reputation as a fairly good runner. Easy to drop in a front MT but the truck mount rear coupler requires a little more work to adapt to MTs. However enough room exists to body mount a MT#1015 back there. The older Kato has a solid metal frame/chassis with dual flywheels. LL has a plastic frame with clamped in weights and dual flywheels. Electrical pickup is through brass tabs in middle of wheelset to brass strips that run the length of the chassis. There may be a newer chassis out there that is split frame on the LL not sure.
I have one of the older Kato's (E-L with wrong lettering) and one of the newer LL's (E-L with correct lettering). The LL is quieter (although not silent) and pulls nearly as well as the Kato version. I bought the LL with the idea of putting the Kato chassis under the very nice shell, but it runs so well I've decided to keep it intact! Bob
Old Concor-Kato PAs Life Like PAs Detailed LL PA Travis: Welcome to Trainboard! [ January 17, 2006, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: sapacif ]
I was going to say that i have been fairly impressed with most of life likes products lately. not saying all but those E8's and the E'6s pull a ton and for the money they cant be beat. I am going to the KC train show this weekend to see how much money i can spend. How much would you think is a fair price on these units? Thanks!
There are several runs of the LL PA's. The early run versions are not split frame, but they are great pullers and good slow runners. There still may be a few of these available--$20 - $30 would be a fair price for them. The E6's, BTW, shared that same style mechanism. The newer version PA's are split frame and have a good reputation. The best discount price for these is around $70+.
I just picked up a new LL E8 SP daylight for $20.00. I don't have it yet though. Will let you know how it is when I get it.
What other life like units were good units. which ones are a good units with slow speed and so forth. Five Flat - You will like the E8. I have 4 E8 SP daylight units that i use to make my grain train of 60 cars until i can afford some different motive power for it. Travis
LL FA-2s were the older units with an unpowered B unit. Had to buy a powered A to power a B but they have been cheap for awhile. LL FA-1 is the newer unit, split frame excellent details in fact the first see through fan grills/screens. Both good pullers but I recommend the newer FA-1 over the FA-2 because of the newer mechanism and you can pull the pins front and rear drop out the Rapido pull the brass spring strip and drop in MT 1015s. Both As and Bs powered.
I also picked up the Bachmann Spectrum F7A/B both powered and brand new for $40. They showed up today in the mail and I am really impressed with them. Quiet, and boy I ran them separately and they ran around my track and never separated more than 2-3mm. Really matched up well. I'll take some pictures later tonight.
Life Like SW switchers and GP-20's are good runners and pullers. The SW's may not pull as well as some would like. I can pull around 8 free rolling MT cars comfortably with it on level track. I hear GP-18's run well but I don't own one.
The newer GP18 has essentially the same mechanism that the smooth running GP20 has, and therefore has similar running qualities. The older non split framers arent bad either - especially if you can get them for a bargain
The Life-Like split frame models are great. I have the GP-20s, FA/FB-1, FA/FB-2s, C-Liners, and Erie-Builts. All are very similar in design and performance, although the cab units pull more. Many of my GP-20s went under Bachmann F-7 shells--there's enough room to add a lot of weight, so they pull well. The older non-split frame models are good runners. I have only a few left. I do have a fleet of SD7/9s that were among my favorites until I went to DCC. I haven't decided what to do with these. They did have an easily-fixed pickup problem.
PA's that came out last year have the solid metal frame. The plastic frame is long gone. They will pull the paint off the wall. Some have said the details are different than the Kato but they are models of different versions (phases) of the PA. The differences from the PA-1 thru 4 are fairly subtle.
Who makes some good cab units? I dont nessacarly have the money for kato and atlas pushes the envelope for money wise, so i have a feeling im going to be mostly with bachperson and life like. what about the concor PA and E units? I just got some ER Sharknose models that i have been fairly impressed with (Baldwin Demonstrators no less). Also who made demonstrator units? the nice thing about demonstrators is you can put them with any road and get away with it. thanks for the info every one! Travis
Since Walther's bought Life Like they are trying to get Kato prices for the new releases. They are good but just don't match up with the quality of the Katos. IMHO Things like the trucks only having two axles driven on a six wheel trucks, the lack of needle point low friction bearings etc. just don't cut it at those prices. As for Bachmann, the diesels have not come along as much as their latest steam. They are still having problems with split gears down the road. So if you can find the Life Like at a good price, buy them. If you don't mind sending stuff back to Bachmann in a few years to take advantage of their lifetime warantee, go that route.
LL FA-2s were the older units with an unpowered B unit. Had to buy a powered A to power a B but they have been cheap for awhile. LL FA-1 is the newer unit, split frame excellent details in fact the first see through fan grills/screens. Both good pullers but I recommend the newer FA-1 over the FA-2 because of the newer mechanism and you can pull the pins front and rear drop out the Rapido pull the brass spring strip and drop in MT 1015s. Both As and Bs powered. </font>[/QUOTE]LifeLike also made the FA/B 2's with the split frame just like the FA/B 1's. Not sure they went over too well as outside of the split frame and a powered B unit they weren't any improvement operationally over the older models. That is not to mean the older models were bad because they certainly weren't. But if I recall correctly the older models were real cheap and could be gotten in the $10-15 range at train shows. In fact I bought the older F/B 2's. Had to buy 4 A units to provide a powered chasis for the B units. Paid all of $50 if my memory serves me correctly to get an all powered ABBA consist. The new splitframe FA/B 2'swere not offered in my roadname. The FA/B 1's were.
The split-frame FA/FB-2s are about as scarce as the split-frame C-Liners and Erie-Builts. I think LL went to limited runs with these models. I wish I had bought more, although I do grab some off e-Bay every once in a while. There was also a very early FA-2 from Mehano--avoid it like a plague! Very crude mechanism and shell.
