Hi Guys, Had a quick question about the GS4. I've taken the loco apart and when I flip over the loco I notice all the drivers move side to side except #2 (from the front). The #2 driver is offset to one side and doesn't move side to side near as much as the other drivers. Is this normal? It doesn't look like it's correct.
Just took it apart. Pulled out the 3 screws and thank god no springs or anything flew out. The brass bushings are somewhat square one of mine wasn't sitting correctly in the notch of the frame. Grabbed some tweezers rotated it slightly and it fell into posistion and now moves freely. Thanks for looking Ben. Going to mill the upper frame today. I've got a machine shop at work and talked one of the machinest to do it for me. Tired of waiting for Katos fix.
I'm getting impatient for the fix too. One etailer says the fix will be freely available. I guess the logistics of distributing is one thing that has to be decided before we hear from Kato. Ben
It sounds like the Kato fix is some sort of Plastic clip. Not a big fan of that idea. Would rather mill to fix the problem. Just not sure how much to remove or how high to cut. I haven't been able to cause the short by hand but I'm sure its there. When I measure the width of the lower frame I get about .264. The upper frame measures the same. someone on the Atlas board took off a total of 1 mm but he broke through the frame on one side so I'm thinking about taking only .5 mm .25 on each side. We'll see how it goes
What does everyone think is the biggest problem with these locomotives? Not to hijack the thread, but I don't like the thought of shorting out a nice locomotive. Did Kato not 'test' the locomotive enough? The videos they show you would think it was tested and true. Is it a quality control issue? Did they not give themselfs enough production time and pushed some bad locomotives through to meet demand? I love Kato models and they have given us alot of great things, but reading things like this where modelers have to take it apart and mill the frame just doesn't seem right to me. We are lucky there are people in this hobby that can do it and discovered the problem, but what if someone bought their son or daughter this set and it didn't work right? That could be bad for the hobby.
Hi, DSZ&N, The determining factor is the 4th driver. It's sprung with contact strips. So it does not travel straight up since it can accomodate an uneven track. Take your measurement by pushing up one side and holding the other down. Looking from the top...see how much drivers goes over the edge of the frame. You should take at least .2 mil from this. I was the one who took 1 mm off, but I used a dremel, and man I wish I new someone with a mill. So I probably took more than a mil off. BY the way, I now have a micro-Tsumani installed with a 1/2" speaker....it's sweeeeetttt....
The frame short that prevents using a drop in decoder is the biggest problem. Does not affect DC running. I even ran using address 00 with DCC before reading not to without any problem. The speed that the loco was brought to the market may well have been the cause. I liked Kato's traditional way of producing slow and sure. Ben
Is the sound with the 1/2" speaker comparable to that in the sound sample on the Soundtraxx site? I listened to it after listening to videos of the prototype and it sounded pretty good. Just wondered if that richness of sound could be had in N Scale. Ben
Personally I think its a small oversight for such a complex locomotive. We're not talking something on the scale of automobile production. We're talking about a small niche compared to most items that are mass produced. When was the last time we saw a steam locomotive direct from the mint that had the high engineering of the Kato GS-4. Take a look at the last GS-4 that was produced not so long ago. Kato came in under the retail of said peice, engineered better, much more complex, pulled just as much if not more, same quality of detail, and better paint. And we want to complain for one flaw, which Kato will fix for free. I've been doing N scale for 15 years. If this locomotive would have come out when most of us started we probably would have not been able to really afford it feasibly. As for those people that buy this for their children...well if they're newbies there is a good chance they wouldnt be using DCC. If they were newbies and using DCC then there is a good chance the person would be technically inclined and most like able to apply a Kato fix. And if all else fails they should take it to their LHS or E-tailer. *soapbox* I guess I come from the old school. If we wanted it a certain way we had to make it on our own. If something wasn't perfect out of the box, we fixed it. As we get closer and closer to performance and specifics we lose sight of whats acceptable and what is not. Instead of a persistent scope, we've narrowed our scope expecting more and expecting less imperfection. Personally I dont think a small population unable to fix their trains (and ultimately turned away from the hobby) is bad, what is bad is losing the persistent scope of what to expect from a manufacturer. Always expecting perfection even when breaking new grounds in engineering and manufacturing to further the production of newer models. Just my .02 and it's Canadien, Tim
Thanks Jose I'll do that. It looks like driver 3 doesn't need such a deep cut. I don't think I need to recess the well upward at all. As you mentioned 3rd driver is the geared driver and doesn't move up and down. So a width reduction is all that is needed. The lower frame width = .264 as is the upper. I'll shave that .008 or .2 mm per your suggestion. I'll try your 4th wheel method and see how much is needed but feel it will be similar to your findings and will probly just go with the 1mm. Few questions, Was that 1mm per side or total. How high did you recess the well. I guess once I do the recommended mesurements that will be obvious. Thank you for your write up it was very well done and along with the therad by UP_Phil set me down this path and it has been a lot fun so far (tearing down was a little nerve racking) Can't wait to finish to "hear" my loco run.
On another note- This is a fine Loc one of the best I've seen. If it was offerd with DCC installed and had this problem That would be really bad for the hobby. But as is to install the Kato decoder takes some experince with modding trains. As stated it work great on DC (at least mine did). Which most new people run. Just my .02
If this question needs a new thread, let me know. But I'm curious the effects of milling out the frame will have on its tractive effort. Has anyone who has milled out their frame attempted an 18 car pull? Will it still make the 4% (curved) grade the Kato website shows (or equivalent)? If speculation says the Kato fix is a plastic or other non-conductive "clip" to add.. I think waiting for that (especially being free) would be worth it, vs milling the frame and risking any tractive effects. However, being drive rod driven.. any space previously required for gears is probably solid weight now.. so milling the frame a tiny bit for driver spacing may not need to be worried about. In any case, still would like to know: Has anyone who has milled out their frame attempted an 18 car pull?
Are you running it on 4% curved grades? If so, you might need to get another GS-4 as a helper. I don't think a 4% curved grade is keeping in the prototype.:tb-biggrin:
I just got done milling out the upper frame (will post pict later tonight). The amount removed was very small I didn't check the weight before milling, But I believe it's made of Aluminum not 100% sure about that. It cut like butter and was very light to begin with. On my layout I have a 3% grade with a curve It pulled the 10 no problem once I get it back together I'll let ya know
I bit the bullet the other night and blasted my 10 car daylight set through the double crossover on my Unitrack layout at full throttle. She passed with flying colors and I did it several times. I think I'm going to tear up my mainline for the new double track mainline pieces with superelavated curves. I checked to see if the GS-4 skews to one side after coming out of a curve, as someone posted, and she does. But, you have to look real hard to notice.
Here the upper half milled The wells were cut to .078 (I had to use the depth gauge on a caliper so ture center of the arc is around .080. Wall thickness on 4th wheel taken from .118 to .098 removed .020. Wall thickness on 3rd driver taken from .118 to .110 only removed .008 as that driver does not float up and down Used a black sharpie to recolor a little shinny but better than silver don't think you'll see it under the skirt You can see how much I took off in this Pict. It worked really well and no longer shorts out.
Hi DSZ&N, Sorry I did not get back to you on your questions sooner, but basically I'm envious of your work if thats any indication of my present thought process ;-) In other words, beautiful job. It was roughly 1 mm per wheel well. It was probably too much. What kind of mill do you have?
