I was able to repair my Proto 2000 cracked axles. I was surprised at how simple it was to accomplish. This is the part I used: Thanks River Eagle. You remove the gearbox cover on the bottom of the truck. The axle gear crack is not obvious at this point. The axle is held in the truck with two square bearing blocks that slide on the axles. Remove the entire axle from the truck. Here is a picture of the axle and the logitudinal crack of the gear section. (This wheel has the bearing block removed.) The crack runs through the grease blob on the axle. The other cracked gears were not this obvious; I re-inserted the wheel to make is stand out. I checked eight axles and seven were broken. All were broken the entire length of the axle except for one that was cracked only on one side. On a cracked axle, the wheel slides out easily; it practically falls out. The new axle gears are very tight when sliding the wheels back in place. I replaced the repaired axles, greased the new gears, and replaced the truck gear covers. Here is a photo of the disassembled truck and a repaired axle ready to be placed back in the gear box area. The gear box cover is on the right. The painted wheels are NWSL replacements. They are 42 inch wheels and I decided not to use them as I think they are slightly too large. Some type of NWSL replacement would be nice, though. Of course, I have no H0 scale track; I will test these two engines on the club layout on Friday. Hope this helps or encourages some modelers to attempt the repair. I was unsure about attempting this repair, but it is really very easy.
This reminds me a bit of my last job of 4 years (prior to my last December layoff). I worked an oil company helping to manage the closure of old oil wells which were never plugged on leases that belonged to a company they purchased. Most states have laws requiring that abandoned wells have to be plugged to protect groundwater/well water etc and eliminate the hazard of open wells. When this oil company bought the parent company who had drilled these old leases years ago, they bought the company to aquire their quick oil change franchise but naturally inherited liablities too, which included many unplugged wells. Someone must have ran financials and determined the benefits far outweighed the liablilities when this aquisition took place. Same with Walthers, they inherited some of the problems that Lifelike had, when they purchased Proto 2000, and that included several generations of HO diesels which all were shipped with axles that had gear prone to cracking. Therefore, Walthers should suck it up and as a part of the cost of the acquisition, provide replacement wheel sets to customers of the various lines of P2k diesels. I agree, Walthers took over the Proto 2000 line and should honor the replacement of the cracked axles. I bought most of my P2K engines during a time when I had to dismantle my last layout and most of them are still new in the box. I own a total (from memory) of 11 Gp30's, 4 SD7/9's and 1 PA from the old Pre Walthers days (all blue box IIRC). From what I gather all of the GP30's will be candidates for cracked axles and probably the SD7/9's so I'm prepared for the day that I need to do the replacement. I should probably see if I can get replacements as I know this is coming and I do hope Walthers changes their customer service policy.
I had one GP30 that ran fine for about 5 minutes when it started thumping like it had a flat spot. Another club member mentioned the cracked axles. So I called walthers and whadda know, the only thing i paid for was the shipping to the plant. about 2 weeks later we got a call from a technician and he said he replaced the bad axles, gave it a good lube, and re-glued on some detail parts that had fallen off during shipping. and besides the first shipping, it was all free!
I had the same experience with a GP 9 and found that Athearn makes the same gear for split axles. It seems that for now the "thumping" problem is resolved and the wheels hold their gauge better than before.
Walthers and their purchase of Life-Like Walthers probably bought Life-Like sight unseen, so to speak, rather than let them be bought by Horizon Hobby Distributors, the same people who bought Athearn, MDC/Roundhouse, McHenry and Rail Power......so far. I'm just wondering when they, Horizon, will buy even more companies to add to the growing list of familiar names they currently own. As it is Walthers has to try to out bid Horizon on every good model railroading company that goes up for sale or risk not being able to carry the lines once they are bought by Horizon as is the case with three of the four companies I mentioned. Greg
I have two first run WM BL2's that I only test run. After many many years sitting in the box I took them out to test again. They humped and jumped stuttered and came to a stop within a few minutes. I found all the axle gears on both engines broken. From what I've read on the previous posts, I'm not alone here! I'm glad I had some older Athearn locos to steal parts from till I get more replacement gears. I did buy a bunch from ebay for a good price. But I will go after Walthers for some freebies as well. Some say they got a hard time and others say it was a snap to get! Guess I'll be finding out for myself soon enough.
your kinda gunna have to go with walthers. about 75% of protos use gears that are just a tad bit too small for athearn replacement. and in the last few months, getting parts from walthers has been like trying to get a lion to hand over its lunch.
Proto 2000 cracked gears I have about a dozen early GP-units from Life Like that I bought new when they first came out. I didn't have a layout to run them on at the time and only recently finished a layout. Every one of the GP-7's, GP-9's and 18's have broken axles. Walther's still refuses to replace these axles under the warranty unless you can provide dealer name where purchased and produce a valid receipt. I didn't keep the receipts so I can't prove that I am the original owner. Their service rep, although quite polite, basically told me I was s--t out of luck and that I could complain higher up the ladder but I would be wasting my time. He said that they had sent out over 60,000 axles and gears and weren't doing that any more. He said that they were getting burned by people who bought engines from another manufacturer that used the same parts who were requesting the parts from them. If 60,000 bad axles doesn't scream that they have a lot of unhappy customers, I don't know what does. Walther's won't budge. I'm glad to learn of the Athearn drop in fix. I've got plenty of those lying around. I'll think twice before I ever buy a Walther's product again.
I have to look at this from Walthers POV. The production runs of these engines that had this problem is growing on near 10+ years old. 10+ years. At what point does the manufacturers responsibility cease? The fact that LL was more than happy to give away free parts at the asking does not mean Walthers is required to do the same, ad infinitum. That they have been until recently is to be commended. That some of you are upset that this has stopped is perplexing. All warranties are given with the implicit fact that they can change over time-the whole, "certain restrictions apply-we reserve the right to change" refers to this. A company is more than within its right to ask you to provide proper paper work to prove date of purchase. These are just standard practices in most industries. I worked for a company that built very high quality machinery in Germany and sold it worldwide. We had a great business until the dawn of eBay. Suddenly, eBay was flooded with our older products, and we were besiged with calls from customers who bought these products, and wanted information and service. Never once did a call from one of these clients start with, "I need help so here's my credit card number". Nope. The calls usually went, "I bought this on eBay and don't have the manual and you need to tell me how it works". "Sure-on used purchases we charge for the service time-can I get your credit card number?" "@#@#$$@@#!!!!-it's your #$%@#$#!! product-it has a lifetime warranty-you guys are known for great customer service-@$@@$#@!!! tell me how this works-or how to fix this-or I am having problems...". You get the idea. Folks who never paid me, or paid me years ago wanted service and wanted it done on their terms. Walthers has a customer service system set up-AND FUNDED BY-paying customers. Recent, paying customers. This system that CAN'T keep going if they spend most of their time ($) taking care of people wanting free parts for an item that was made 10+ years ago. Sorry, that is the brutal economic reality of it. I understand some of you are upset, but that doesn't mean the company needs to meet you on this. Either you have been running your engines for the better part of a decade, and the company could easily claim wear and tear. Or, as alluded to above, some of you bought engines, kept them in storage for many years, and now are just discovering the problem. It stinks, but you waited. If you bought a computer today, put it in the attic for 5 years, then fired it up and it did not work properly, do you really think Best Buy or Electric Avenue will take it back or fix it no charge? I think not. As a buyer, you have some responsibility on checking your purchase, and notifying the shop or manufacturer as soon as you find a defect. Wal-Mart gives you 30 days to do this. I see no reason why you should get more time than that. Lastly, to blast Walthers over this decision is understandable. You are entitled to your opinion and you did spend good money on your purchase. But, where would we have been with out this first batch of Proto 2000 engines? Where? In the basement scrapping the cast on handrails of our Athearn's and looking at that big pile of Canon & Co., Details West and other add on detail parts we will need to drill and install. Not to mention paint, decal, weather....and even then, the best most of us would get would be close to what Proto could give you out of the box. We were blessed to get these, blessed with what they have done the overall quality of HO models and blessed with pretty good durability and performance. Don't keep bludgeoning Walthers. Finally, you can get these gears. Here's my unique and so far, completely fool proof way to get a set. Place an actual order and then let them know you also need to exchange the gears. Amazingly, they are easy to work with when using this method. -Mark
Mark - That's a great post. About 12 months ago I was one of the lucky ones who received, free of charge, replacement gears for two Protos - BL2 and GP30. Both locos were new old stock. Been sitting on shelves for years. Walthers didn't even make 'em but they fixed 'em for me. I would willingly pay for them to do likewise in the future. Incidentally, I have two Walthers Proto 1000 RS2s here and they run like a dream on my DC. Mike
Dear Mike, Thanks! I was expecting an ear full. I truly understand how frustrating not getting good customer service can be. As someone who works in the field I get highly irate when I go into a store or deal with someone on the phone who cares not, thinks not and can't communicate with anything other than two word answers. However, I also have become much more aware of my need, as a consumer, to be vigilant, yet fair. If I were to buy NOS, I would accept that even though it is, "new" it's been in a box for years, and aside from Sophia Loren and good wine, few things age very well. So, in these cases I understand the frustration but can't condone it. I also would point out that the frustration we cling to most times clouds our ability to see other avenues of solution. Did anyone who bashed Walthers ever try to make a deal with the CS person? Think about it, if you offer someone a new solution, they may say no. But they may appreciate your ability to reason INSTEAD of quareling and may work with you. If you just yell or get nasty they will say no. Yep, I have one of those RSC's. Wonderful locomotive. The speed on mine is just so wonderfully, "branch-line slow" from the bottom to the top end. The only thing missing, 'sides the hand grabs, is a smoke unit that could belch out enough black smoke to accurately represent an ALCO 244. For all of $45.00. Seriously, $45.00. I put it next to the Athearn GP-9 I spent years and $$$$$$$$$$ on for detail parts, decals and paint and my effort looks like a toy. A sloppy, funky "dam hood's still too wide" toy. -Mark
Several years ago I had a couple of P2k engines that needed the gears replaced. This was before Walthers bought them out. I called lifelike and thay sent out what I needed + a couple extra sets. some years later I needed a set to fix an engine and I called Walthers, who was now the owners, and I was able to get a set. when I was speaking with the rep, he told me that they were planning on ending the free replacements. When I asked why, he told me that Walthers had sent out more replacements than lifelike had produced engines with the bad gears. he told me the numbers and I have since forgotten them but, it was pretty big. We discussed this some more and I found out that prior to Walthers owning them Lifelike had also sent out more than enough to fix all of the potentially defective gears. what was happening was simple. everyone at the time knew that lifelike had used a clone of the Athearn trucks for their engines. The problem was they did not use the actual Athearn parts but had their manufacturer make the parts. Once everyone found out that the Proto gears worked in the Athearn trucks and came with new nickel silver wheels for free, the gold rush was on. This is the reason why Walthers now wants proof of purchase before they send out a replacement set. Is it right?...Not for me to decide. I do understand their position on this though As a side note, I met a gentleman at a show a couple of years ago who was selling replacement gear/wheel sets for Proto engines. They looked suspiciously like the sets I got. I found out later that he had requested several hundred sets from Lifelike or Walthers under the guise of being a repair shop who was fixing these engines for customers.
Dear Dan, Thanks! Nice to know that. I figured there would be people who would just have to take advantage of the free offer. -Mark
Cracked Gears This my first post. I recently sent an email to Walthers once I learned through internet research that the problem with the proto 2000 locos in my collection going thump, thump, thump is almost certainly a result of cracked gears. I was surprised to be replied to with near contempt because I bought most of them from woo woo woo dba some train store rather than the local hobby shop (which of course there isn't on the island of Kauai. I enjoyed reading of others experience with Walther's customer service. I'm inclined just to pay them the money so that I can enjoy running what are nonetheless very handsome locos. I just wish Walthers (and Lifelike before them) had been upfront with the issue and that the folks at Model Railroader (who surely have long known about it) published some notice about the problem instead of just sweeping it under the rug.
I model in N (well, I try to!) and this is dreadfully reminiscent of Graham Farish products before they were taken over by Bachmann. I have other issues with their products, but they kept getting split gears. It's the diesel types that suffer worst. Their steamers I have don't show any symptons yet. They would go very badly in one direction, and not at all in the other. I've had all the geartrains replaced, and I understand it's associated with the type of plastic used in the gears. A different type of plastic, or a metal, gear, and hey presto! No problem. Regards Pete
Greg, I just had a similar conversation with a Walther's Tech Dep't. "specialist". Though nothing like your "Customer Service Queen", he was very cool and very resolute that Walther's would no nothing about the drive problems associated with the Life-Like Proto 2000 line of locomotives. Most companies perform due diligence before purchasing another company - it's assets and it's liabilities. The woman with whom you spoke was basically telling you that they had failed to do that before acquiring Life-Like Proto 2000, or they would have been very much aware of any problems prior to acquiring them, or walking away from the table. I'm afraid that, while Walther's would like us to believe that their failure to step up and take ownership of what is now their problem is due to our country's economic woes, that is sorta' like blowing smoke. The two are not related. They would do well to stand behind what are now their products and provide replacement parts to model railroaders/customers without requiring proof of purchase which they well know most of us no longer have. Our country's economic plight has provided them with an "excuse" to not do the right thing. And, to a great extent, we have let Walther's and other companies wrestle away from us our bargaining positions. The idea that, "The customer is always right" is almost laughable in today's business environment, but not for any particularly good reason except that we have forgotten how to stick up for what is our due and we allow our tremendous desire to own something override our ability to say, "If that is how you do business, I can do without this". At any rate, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the situation. And, like yourself, I don't know what can be done to make it better. I don't see how it can become much worse. And yet, we are the ones who pay: first with our money, and, later, with our emotions and enthusiasm for our hobby and our hobby suppliers. I hope that Walther's Tech Department reads this forum. Best regards, Randy Smith
There OTHER othere side to Walther's take in the gears You know how those lovely Athearn gears fit in the P2K? Well, they also work the otherway. And surprsie surprise, they also fit in other manufacturer's equipment. Anyone wanna guess how many of Walther's free gears went to Walther's products? I'm gonna say 60%, and I'm likely HIGH! At what point do they pay the Cust. Serv. for someone else's fubar? What shoulda been done in the 2yrold OP was to put more emphasis on the Queen, and fire her shiny red caboose. 1) You DON'T treat a customer like that, and 2) you DON'T say such things about your product, or put words in the mouths of the company. And much as I'm sure some thought that at the time of the gear issues, P2K and the slotcars are sure doing Walthers a good business.
