Hi to all, First post - please be kind (and I apologise if not in correct area of forum). I'm from the UK, and after modelling our railways for some time have become very interested in creating a small US layout - the usualk thing for us space - starved UK modellers, a small urban switching layout. I have a basic idea for the trackplan, and a vague idea of area which to model. This leads me to my question - were there any areas of the US in the late 50s in which one could see C&O, B&O, Pennsylvania and NYC locos together. The more research I do, the more I realise the complex questions which are thrown up - all part of the fascination for me. Many thanks for anyone replying to this thread Phil
Columbus, Ohio. All those four plus N&W. And this may be jumping the gun a bit, but if you want to run steam (as most 50s modellers do), PRR, NYC and C&O all eliminated steam in '57. B&O had steam to 1960.
Welcome to Trainboard and the Layout Design forum, Phil. You are in exactly the right place to ask your question. I'm not as knowledgeable as Triplex about what specific RRs might have been found in particular cities in the late 1950s, so I'll let him and other TB members propose various cities that meet your requirements. What I'd like to offer is some reference tools to help make better informed decisions about which of the proposed locations might work best for you. Do you have access to US Railroad atlases or RR system maps showing cities served by the RRs you mentioned? Two RR atlas possibilities: 1. The Handy Railroad Atlas of the United States, published in 1982 by Rand-McNally a US map-making company, 2. The Comprehensive Railroad Atlas of North America: Great Lakes East Volume published closer to your home by Steam Powered Video SPV, UK (Website: www.spv.co.uk) in 1995. Many times, some of the larger US cities will be served by a regional or terminal railroad that handles traffic between all the major RRs that come into the city. I model a 1970s era small regional RR in central Illinois that received trains daily from a dozen different RRs. It was possible to see a variety of locos and rolling stock from any of the 12 RRs that passed through the P&PU's East Peoria Yard daily. (Take a look at the Rand-McNally map of the state of Illinois that I used to show some of the cities where several of those trains originated. If you right click and save the image to your computer, you will be able to open it in a photo viewing program to see more detail.) There are several map services that can be very helpful in determining what cities a person might like to model. Using Triplex' suggestion of the city of Columbus in the the state of Ohio, a modeler could search on MapQuest.com for color photos of RRs and streets . Although these images are 50 years later than your preferred era, you can still see some of the descendents of the RRs you mentioned. Microsoft TerraServerUSA has topographic maps and aerial/satellite imagery of the US. This link is to a 1978 topo map of the same yard as shown above in the more recent MapQuest imagery. Google Earth also has color satellite imagery of most of the major US cities, and seems to provide the best image resolution and navigation options. From the early 1900s through 1956 in the United States, the Sanborn Fire Insurance Company made extremely detailed maps of structures, roads, railroads, and utilities for cities they insured. Hard copies of these maps are often kept in the archives of local universities. It is sometimes possible to access bound volumes of the Sanborn maps for particular cities to make copies, and sometimes to download digital copies. I was able to able to obtain printouts for most of the buildings and structures along the Peoria & Pekin Union Ry right of way at Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois. Since I wasn't a student at the University, I had to do my research at computers in the Bradley Library; but if I had been a Bradley student, I could have obtained a password to search the digital files from my home computer. If you are interested in searching the Sanborn maps of a particular city...say, Columbus Ohio...it may be possible for you to arrange Internet access to digital copies of the Sanborn Fire Insurance Company maps if you work through a local university in the UK to get permission to search the Sanborn maps of Columbus Ohio in the digital files (if they have them digitalized) at Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio. This pic shows a Sanborn map from the early 1900s that was colorized by Bill Saenger to show more clearly the RRs he was modeling. Since I happened to be modeling the same area but about 50 years later, the map was very helpful in setting up my track plan for this area of Pekin Illinois on my layout. The map showing Big 4 Junction in Pekin (as above, save and view this pic on your computer if you want to see the details better): Big 4 Junction on my 1970s era layout: 3 ATSF and 3 P&E (NYC/PennCentral/ConRail) tracks in the foreground, P&PU crossing left to right, PT in the distance. Good luck with finding a good city to model. Give us lots of feedback about any of our suggestions so future suggestions can address your specific needs and wants more effectively.
Thank you very much for the replies - much appreciated. I shall enjoy doing some further research, will let you know the results Phil
Chicago has always been a major hub for many eastern and western US railroads. I model an urban Chicago/Gary setting with NYC, PRR, RI, IHB, and CB&Q as the main RRs on my trackage. I do believe the C&O/B&O also had trackage into Chicago as there is a viaduct with a faded B&O logo still on it over the Eisenhower expressway (I live in the Chicago area). This site might also be useful if you plan to model anything in Chicago: http://www.dhke.com/CRJ/
In addition to the suggested cities, Cincinnati, OH is another city that had NYC, PRR, C&O and B&O service - plus N&W, L&N, and Southern RR (and DT&I via trackage rights over PRR, I think). I believe Toledo, OH, would also get you the four RRs you want, and both St. Louis, MO and Indianapolis, IN were served by three of the four (not C&O) plus other midwestern/western roads. Baltimore, MD and Detroit, MI were served by three of the four you want also (no NYC in Baltimore, no B&O in Detroit). I think Cleveland, OH would also get you three of four (no C&O). Jeff
If you have any interest in learning more about the Columbus, Ohio area as Triplex suggested for a possible modeling location with all four of your identified railroads then take a look here. Some very interesting photos, information and narratives about Columbus from late 1950s back to the early 1900s.
This just gets better - I really do appreciate your input into my project. The weather forecast is for a wet weekend, so I guess a lot of time will be spent on the computer researching your suggestions (and drinking lots of tea of course),
Not sure if anyone mentioned this. If you google the railroad names you should find links to the historical society of those roads. They usually feature system maps of the railroad. Also the fallen flag photo site is a great resource.
I've had a whale of a time trawling through the suggestions above - loads of websites, printed out lots of maps etc which was huge fun in itself. I think that after weighing it all up the location I favour is Toledo because of the large number of railroads which used it. The actual setting within Toledo will be fictional - at least I know that my mix of railroads will be prototypical. Thanks again Phil
Where are you getting that? I recall reading that the EM-1s lasted to 1960. And no, I don't recall where.
