GS-4 fix I'd guess we're all pleased that some received purr-fect running GS4s - that says Kato can do it. The rest of us - some returned units, some sent them back for repair, some are awaiting fix info - are cautiously optimistic that we'll soon have flawless units, too. The discouraging news is that Kato hasn't updated its website, recently. Encouraging is that we're dealing with Kato, and from history, we can expect them to step up to the plate. And it is possible to call or email them and get a response. What I ask, here, is that we continue to work together as we deal with Kato and the GS4. Let's keep in mind - and Kato's mind - that there's a list of problems to be fixed. Maybe you've installed DCC successfully or corrected that derailing pilot truck, but does that traction tire still come off? Does the right-yawing loco derail on some turnouts? Yes, some units run perfectly in DC. But some don't - remember all our testing on the chatter? And several units chattering? Power source diifferences? DCC and the short are the big problems, and - for the number of owners affected - I'd like to see these fixed first. But we're also entitled to lights that work, TTs that stay on (or off!) and a loco that doesn't change personality on a grade or under load. We've seen the GS4 perform, and that's all we're asking for - performance consistent with it's engineering and Kato's reputation. Let's politely pursue the 'tick list' until we - all of us with GS4s - get the dream loco we've been awaiting. Scott
Scott, I recall that you returned your GS-4 to Kato for several issues and asked for their advice on the TT situation. I assume it has not been returned and you have received no answers. I only had one instance of losing a TT. I put it back on and it is still there. I do recall throwing one on a Mikado a number of years ago. Put it back on and it also is still on. Maybe in each case the TT was not securely seated when assembled. My pilot truck derailments are also cured. Removing the pilot truck spring and tuning my #6 switches, especially where the point rail meets the stock rail, has done it. The loco does travel through all turnouts rather noisily but no derailments in over a month. Of course I did pay for professional installation of a decoder but I would have had to do that in any event. The installation was four weeks ago and no problems with it. So I have gone from to since February and I hope all of you will do so soon. Ben
It took at least a year to produce the loco that we know of? We have no clue how long it was in developement before the loco was actually announced. Kato usually doesn't announce something till it at least has a running mech. The GS-4 may have been 2 years or more in the making and everybody is complaining because the DCC design oversite hasn't been fixed in under 2 months? I think my 3 year old has more patients than that, and that is not saying much. It takes time to design, test, manufacture, and distribute the repair piece. The manufacture of the part must be squeezed into an existing production schedule without setting the other forthcoming items back. Then you have to figure out how to get the part out to the public. There is a lot of logistics involved in this process. Add to that, this was probably the largest production run Kato has ever had to deal with and that just adds more time and complexity to the situation. I am not running DCC on mine but if I was, I wouldn't be using the drop in decoder so none of this would even matter. The drop-in from Kato will only control the motor and nothing else. If I am going to take the time to install DCC in the loco, it would include rewiring for control of the lighting effects at minimum. Isolating the motor from the frame solves the short circuit problem and that would be done just because it is the best way to do it.
Ben, thanks for the perspective, and I'm glad you got a good unit. Yes, at Kato's invitation, I sent my 'chattering' unit to Schaumburg for analysis and repair. That I haven't received it back or communication is not Kato's fault - I offered that they put it in the study-and-test pool. I've been one of Kato's biggest fans since acquiring two second hand Hudsons in the early '80s. I'll probably always prefer Kato. But from studying the posts to 4 threads (this makes 5), I know there are some anxious or frustrated owners. I won't look it up, but I remember at least one who - noting the low price and the poor performance - thought he'd turn his into a park monument. That's too bad - lower than an empty B-unit. I'd hate to see anyone give up on this loco, because it can be fixed, and it can be another 'Hudson.' Thanks for your well-wish for those of us with GS4 problems. I'm betting Kato will fix them to our satisfaction. Scott Thanks for your
I'm planning on a sound decoder in the tender which will require the shorting frame fix and if Kato can supply me with something that will just clip in rather than me having take the mech apart, then thats the way I'll go and if so, I'm prepared to wait for it. I understand the logistical nightmare Kato have gotten themselves into, but still think they could let us know something like "This is what we've come up with, .... we apologise but it could take 3 months to get out, if it looks like taking longer we'll post updates."
Well it only took us a day to figure out we DCC users had a problem and less than a week to find out what it was. If this happened from any other company but Kato we wouldn,t be that surprised. Yes Kato came out right away with the warning announcement. An update on the website once in a while would have been nice. Some of us like the ease of a drop in decoder. Generally the new engine arrives and we have to wait 2 more months for a decoder to hit the streets. Kato already has one ready to drop in. limited yes but we were ready to run. Yes most of us can or would have the hard wire decoder done, but I think we wanted to hear from Kato what the "fix" was going to be. New frame? Insert? whole new engine? Before we void warranty .
Voiding a warranty on something like a $30,000 automobile would concern me. On a $130 model I'll take my chances. I'd rather be running the model than letting it sit idle. "Passion will not wait." Ben
I removed the pilot spring on one GS-4 (for use in a brass model on its pilot truck) and it has suffered no ill effects. Both are rather noisy going through turnouts, but only slightly more than other locos. Both of my GS-4's have been flawless runners since day one, aside from a minor ticking in the valve gear on the 4440. Since I run DC right now, the whole DCC thing hasn't been a bother. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones (twice). Any word on when 4453 will be on the shelves.
What amazes me is how much we are willing to forgive Kato for this blunder. If this model had been from Bachmann or Walthers we would be denouncing their products and shouting from the hilltops how TERRIBLE those companies are and by golly "I WANT MY MONEY BACK" and "I WILL NEVER EVER BUY FROM THEM AGAIN" (conveniently forgetting how far those companies have come in developing quality products in the past few years). But for some reason Kato is given a free pass. Makes me wonder. I for one would rather spend my money on another of the wonderful 4-8-2 Heavy Mountains that Bachmann has given us. Note to Kato: perhaps an integrated dual-mode decoder would have been a good way to go from the beginning.
EXACTLY my feelings! This is a hobby....things aren't supposed to be spoon-fed to us. I have had to do milling on frames, re-solder connections, scratchbuild replacement parts. This is all part of the experience that we chose when we got into model trains. In the Marines we would say "Change and Adapt". That's the attitude I'm taking here also. If it doesn't work out of the box, then I'll MAKE it work.
I think Kato gets a pass because their reputation in N scale is pretty good, and pretty well deserved. Bachmann, and Walthers? Not so much. Though, many people say good things about the Spectrum and Proto lines, so they are not universally bashed. As far as the integrated decoder, they can't win. Half of the whining about the Challenger and Big Boy is that they DO have one, and we pay for it. Kato chose to go the other way, I don't know which is better!
On the surface I would agree with you. My mother used to say: "If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen." To which I would respond: "Or open a window". My heat abatement system here is to eschew the model. Even if I had the acuity to make the repairs I would resent having to. Kato shipped something they must have known had problems. I won't reward that.
Or maybe they didn't. I'm convinced that every entity in the world is nutty but me. And it is beginning to wear off to the extent that I'm wondering about me. Ben
I'm afraid I have to disagree. Kato advertised the GS4 as DCC ready with a drop in decoder, not DCC compatible with some milling and soldering. I don't mind doing a bit of milling and soldering either but not when I shouldn't have to. Installing a sound decoder in the tender would still require soldering a few wires but the only disassembly would have been removing the tender shell. If something is advertised by the manufacturer to work out of the box then it SHOULD work, I'll work on something to improve it but it's not up to me to make it do what its supposed to. I'm not worried about voiding a warranty, I just don't want to take apart a good running steam loco unless I have to.
I don't think they knew either, I think they just didn't bother to test an engine with the decoder installed, it didn't take us long to figure it out so sufficient testing on Kato's part before shipping would have found the problem, you can't tell me Kato didn't have any of their own decoders on hand to test one.
I am hard put to believe Kato didn't know. That said let say that they truly didn't know. They should have. I am not willing to reward such an oversight. Note: Love the Kato track system, all of their diesels, electrics, and the Mikado. I will continue to buy them.
Just got this off the Kato website. Dear Kato Customer, NOTE FOR GS-4 LOCOMOTIVE with KATO EM13 DECODER: The following information is for customers who already have a Kato EM13 decoder. If you are a customer and do not currently have a Kato EM13 decoder, please watch the Kato web site for EM13 purchase and installation coming May 7, 2008. While the GS-4 operates well in DC mode, if you intend to use the GS-4 with the Kato EM13 decoder, we need you to follow the instructions below. To provide efficient and professional service, we ask those customers who already purchased a Kato EM13 decoder to please contact their dealer for installation of the Kato EM13 decoder and the DCC insert retrofit kit for the GS-4 locomotive. If the dealer is not available to install this kit or the dealer is unable to install this kit, please contact Kato USA: Phone: 847-781-9500 Fax: 800-548-5286 Email: leon@katousa.com Please contact your hobby store or Kato USA by May 5, 2008 so we can quickly supply the necessary parts for this retrofit. We will be putting up a list of participating dealers on our website as soon as the complete list becomes available, to make it easier for you to find someone to install the kit. We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause you. Thank you for your understanding and support. Best regards, Staff at Kato USA, Inc.
I wonder if Kato is going to pay for my time and shipping cost to return my GS-4 to my hobby shop. Or do I have to pay out of my pocket to get it repaired when this is clearly Kato's mistake. ibag1956 George
Pay to have a plastic clip installed? A clip that is part of a standard decoder install for this engine. Even on "DCC Ready" engines there is some prep work needed. Maybe it's putting Kapton tape against th frame, maybe it takes removing a motor jumper. In any case, asking for additional steps by Kato seems petty to me. My suggestion...if you don't like the solution, then speak with your wallet. Return the item and be done with it.
