Hi. I have an N scale door sized layout made with Unitrack. It is currently wired for DC, and has 12 blocks. Each block is fed by one set of feeders using the Kato wired connectors between track segments. Insulators are used on both rails at the ends of each block. The feeders are as close as possible to the center of each block, and it is no more than about 24-30 inches to the end of each block. The interesting thing is that I have about three "slow" spots in the track. I notice that some track segments or parts of track segments cause single locos to stall and cause MU'ed lashups to slow. No matter how much I clean the track, those same segments are always slow. Interestingly, the slow segments are NOT the farthest away from the feeders. One of them is even right at the feeder, while the segments farthest from the feeders are "normal." Cleaning is usually with an Atlas cleaner car, although I have tried separately cleaning with an eraser, alcohol, a quarter rubbed along the tracks, etc. It's always the same exact areas that cause problems. What methods do you recommend for troubleshooting? Track gauge? Voltage checks? Some other cleaning method? Thanks for any help.
is possibly this block wired in a series as opposed to in parallel? double check to make sure that the wiring layout DESIGN is sound. It doesn't sound like dirty rails is your problem. If dirty rails were the problem, you would see a slow spot, but not a slow block. Subtle difference, but one that would lead to an accurate diagnosis.
Blocks are definitely in parallel. And I do see slow spots, not slow blocks. Sorry if that was not clear above. Basically, in a few blocks, there are slow and normal sections. The slow sections are not farthest away from the feeders.
Not sure if this would be your issue, but I am not crazy about kato feed wire set up. I make my own typically. Or the places I use theirs, I find it I carve out some of the plastic support under the section of track so that the contact can lay flat, they seem to work better. Without doing that, the contacts bend awkardly, and in some cases causes a break, or even a hairline fracture of the contact. if it is fractured, it could cause higher resistance, and poor contact. Its a long shot as far as your problem, but i have seen weirder causes. Bottom line, if something is slowing down, it is typically related to current flow, or lack there of, or it current being hamped by high resistance (dirty, corroded, loose, or bad connections, etc) What I said "could" cause the problem.
Tudor makes a very valid observation. If you are using the terminal unijoiner, Kato part number 24-818, it's wise to carve out a little extra room to allow the unijoiners to sit flat. If not, the track may rise a little too high and you run the risk of the wires breaking. One wire in particular (blue ?) has a nasty habit of breaking off. If you aren't to far along with the track work and you can still remove pieces without too much damage, consider using the Kato part number 24-041 Feeder track instead. The power connection to the track is much better. You will have to substitute a second shorter piece of track to accomodate the swap out, but the performance will be much improved. Regards, Keith.
Unfortunately, the track is all glued down. Of course, I only used white glue, so I could re-do it without too much trouble. However, while I appreciate the ideas, I am not sure the power leads are the problem. The reason why I think this is because I would think that all the track in that block would be a problem if the leads were bad. But, for example, if the train slows down over 1 piece of track, then it speeds up on a piece of track farther from the feeder, then all the current/voltage is somehow getting through the bad section of track to the next piece. My blocks are completely isolated from each other, so there can be no bleed back from the next block. So, I am thinking that maybe it is some stubborn coating, or track gauge, or something that takes power away from a pickup at some small point or area?
You may wish to try using a "brite-boy" type abrasive block to clean the sections having slower performance. This sounds like a conductivity problem, and use of a brite-boy is the best way to get down to the base metal without scratching.
Just wondering: Is it curved in those areas? If so is it a tight curve? What kinds of locomotives are you using?
That is my solution as well, run a brite boy over the rails in that track section. I have had the same issue!!!
It's the nature of the beast. I've experienced the same thing for almost 15 years. As you say the slowing can occur right over a feeder and be normal a few inches away in the same block. You can clean the track til the cows come home and it won't help. The only thing I can suggest is provide additional feeders near the slow point and that does not always cure the problem. If you use a "Bright boy" be sure to use the newer non-abrasive type. The older ones can scratch the surface of your track and make things worse. A "Pink Pearl" or similar pencil eraser is a safer solution. Unitrack cleans very easily. Ben
This comment assumes that more than one section of track is within the block(s) that gives you trouble. Since you have tried multiple cleaning techniques, my guess would be rail joiners that are not tight. That may be completely out of context, since I have no knowledge of the Unitrack system. I use Atlas flex and experienced a similar situation. I found a "cold" solder at a joint. Reheated it and my problem went away. I sure hope that you find a fix soon. That sort of problem is the worst! Good luck!
Not curved, zero grade. Locos span the board from Kato 2-8-2's to Kato 4 axle diesels, to Bachmann 2-8-0's to newer Atlas 4 axle diesels. No super long engines or 6 axle units, but I do run double and triple headed mu's often. They all seem to react the same, so there is definitely something causing a lack of current/voltage at some point. Stupid thought. I used plaster cloth as the base over which the Unitrack is glued. I tried to sand the plaster cloth smooth before laying track, but it's probably not perfect. Should I maybe check for small rises and falls at the rail joiners that could be caused by not having a perfectly level base surface? Might this cause some axles to get "light" over a dip or vertical kink? Most of the engines are high quality and all wheel pickup, so I would think this shouldn't be a problem, but maybe? BTW, cleaning with a pink eraser didn't help. Thanks again for the continued assistance. Mike
Without reading all the other posts and knowing it's possible your question has been answered. Here's my take on the subject. You said you insulated every block on both sides of the rail... as do I. A good practice. I did discover that Unitrack #6 switches are power routed. So when you move the points the power is routed directly to the frog and usually down the track...beyond. However, I've also found that some switches power route only to the frog resulting in a slow spot or dead spot. Inside the switch is a brass, metal slide switch and sometimes the dimples aren't deep enough to maintain contact, thus the slow or dead spot. I'm still working on a way to correct this and I will be more then happy to share my findings or resolution to the problem identified, as soon as I get it figured out. Fair enough. I have three spots on my layout where this occurs and like you I want them fixed. I've also had places where the rail joiner wasn't soldered or I had a cold solder joint and experienced slowing. Just an after thought. I figured I better add that in here. I hope this helps.
Interesting idea, Rick. I use almost all #6 switches. I need to look to see where the slow spots are relative to the feeders and the switches. I was definitely smart enough to put the feeders on the entrance side of all the switches (or else the power routing wouldn't work of course,) but I don't really remember where the feeders and slow spots are relative to the turnouts. I am pretty sure at least one of my slow spots is between the feeder and the switch, but I am not completely sure. I will look when I get home later. Mike
Well, I think I found it. It appears there was a pretty fair amount of glue residue on the tracks left over from the blue painter's tape I covered the track with when I was doing scenery. I ran trains for hours today trying to diagnose and correct, and as the track gathered some dirt from the cars, I was able to see specks and streaks of black on the tops of the rail where most of the slow spots were. Using my fingernail, I was able to actually feel the residue. I wound up scraping most of it with my fingernail. I also used some Goof-off adhesive remover. For the most part, everything works pretty well now. There are still some slightly slower sections, but these seem to be longer sections of just a slight but even slowness after the turnouts. So, the theory that Kato #6 turnouts may not route power perfectly may also have had some effect. In any case, running a really old and set of ConCor heavyweights with worn out trucks (read high friction) behind a lone 2-8-0 at low speeds showed me where to look. By late afternoon, I could pretty much creep the consist around without any stalls. Thanks to all for all the help. ...and BarstowRick, if you figure something out on those #6's, please let me know. Thanks again. p.s. Not related, but way cool is that my 7 year old daughter decided she wanted to do an ops session this evening. Two trains running, she tried (successfully, using block and turnout control) to move and spot cars from the inner to outer loops and to the three sidings I currently have. Lots of fun watching her figure out how to do it. Mike
Proud Papa! Mike and all tuned in, Still working on the dimple thing with the #6 Unitrack Switches. I will let you know what I learn as soon as possible. Nothing like watching your daughters interest in the railroad. My daughter who is now grown up with babes of her own stopped by to visit. I took her over to a layout I was working on and she ran several trains without any direction or guidance from me. Of course she's helped me build railroads and understands how I wire them, block them and etc. Watching her somehow brought out the proud papa thing in me. A kind of lump in the throat and a pumped up chest...right? It all came back as I read about your daughters interest. Feels good eh? I will get back to you ASAP. Enjoy!
I'm glad you found the problem! To add some info to your secondary question about power loss thru the #6 turnouts.... In my layout, there are four feeders, equi-distant around the loop. There are no feeders inside the run-around track: http://home.comcast.net/~j.sing/Peavine_Layout_Overview.html I have noticed that there is definitely a small current drop in both legs of the run-around track that is between the two #6 turnouts. It's slight, but noticeable, especially with certain older Kato diesels that are very sensitive to differences in voltage. After a lot of debugging several years ago, my best guess is that this is due to the numerous sliding internal contacts that are inside both the #4 and #6 the turnouts, thus causing some loss of voltage inside the run-around. Hope this helps.
I was going to ask if any switches were involved... As I learn unitrack and prepare to use on my next layout, I have experienced power loss in sections where switches are involved, as BarstowRick suggests. I hope that additonal power lines will solve the problem for me... frustrating to experience this one minor issue with unitrack. Good luck and keep us posted...
This may have been addressed, and common knowlege, but will mention it anyway. I always provide ample feeds, on all points of a turnout, simply because I do not want to draw a load accross the contacts inside the turnouts. Simply because they are thin copper contacts, and it wouldn't take much to burn the contacts, adding up in time to poor connection, & voltage drop due to that. so I like to minimize the current draw through those contacts. So, I simply be sure feed lines provide most the current comming into the turnout, as well as leaving the turnout. Your points will last much longer.
