I have a NYC 4-6-2 Pacific and a Nickel Plate road 4-8-2 Berkshire. I haven't bought any cars yet. I don't think they pulled any passenger stuff (because I don't see any available passenger stuff). The pickings seem slim on new releases, so I'm perusing ebay, would also look at specific trainstore links, but not enough pictures for me to attack trainstore blind. Thanks
Pacifics were designed as passenger locos, as was most locos with four wheel lead trucks. BUT the 4-8-2s were used in both passenger and freight. The four wheel lead truck allowed for higher speeds besides support. Big Boys had a four wheel truck but were designed for freight. There is no reason why a Pacific could not be used on a freight train but would not be as efficent as a loco with smaller drivers. Bigger drivers=faster overall speed and the smaller drivers were better for starting more tonnage. The big thing to remember about steam is that every time there is some rule there is an exception to it, or so it seems.
"I have a NYC 4-6-2 Pacific and a Nickel Plate road 4-8-2 Berkshire." A Berkshire was a 2-8-4, which was a fast frieght engine. A 4-8-2 could be used on passenger or freight runs, depending on the railroad's desires on how to use such.
The NYCS, as a rule, used pacifics for passenger. There was a class of 'freight pacifics', class K-11. They also worked local passenger. I am assuming that you have a Model Power USRA light pacific. NYCS did not have a USRA light pacific. Funny thing, the NYCS locomotive to which the USRA light bears the closest resemblance, is, in fact, the K-11, although the resemblance is extremely remote. The first K-11s appeared in 1911, or so; the first USRAs, in 1918. There are NYCS passenger cars out there. Con-Cor sells a six car set of Rivarossi heavyweights, as well as a three car add-on. The six car set has a baggage, baggage/passenger, coach, diner, sleeper and open-deck observation. The add-on has two additional coaches and an additional sleeper. HWs would be what pacifics pulled, mostly, on the NYCS. NYCS did shroud a few pacifics for the Mercury , but by the time most of the lightweight cars arrived, the hudsons had superceded the pacifics on the NYCS. P&LE and P&E would be exceptions, as those subsidiaries never had hudsons (possbily MC and LS&MS, as well). Pacifics did most of the passenger work on those subsidiaries until the diseasels came. MP used to sell the old LIMA passenger cars in NYCS lettering. The paint on them is not correct, nor is the lettering font and (worst of all for NYCS fans) they are PRR prototypes. C-C also sells LW cars in NYCS paint, as well as stainless steel corrugated cars with NYCS lettering (althought the font is incorrect). The HWs and painted LWs are from old RR molds that may have finally gotten too old. The word out there is that those have been discontinued, but the cars are still out there and at shows. The corrugated cars are recent tooling. You could probably get away with having the pacific pull LWs. Most likely, you mean a NYC&StL 2-8-4 berkshire. The only one in N scale that sells a plastic/mass produced 4-8-2 is Bachmann. They are USRA heavy and USRA light, and I do not recall that Bachpersonn ever issued either in NYC&StL. The 2-8-4 was designed as a fast freight locomotive, and that is the use to which the NYC&StL put it. C&O did use berkshires on passenger trains on the hilly country in Kentucky, but I do not know that any other road used them on passenger trains, anywhere, at least not with any frequency. There were occasions where a locomotive might be pressed into service for purposes other than that for which is was designed, but that would be an exception, rather than the rule. One thing about berkshires was that the type had a tendency to vibrate at speed. As the C&O's profile in the hills of Kentucky was such that no train, freight or passenger, had the opportunity to get up much speed, the vibration was an infrequent problem. The NYC&StL had a different profile on its main lines; it allowed trains to get up speed. Vibration would have been a major problem, there, so I would doubt that NYC&StL would too often put its berkshires to work on passenger trains. Funny thing about the USRA light pacific: three railroads had originals (there were also copies owned by the same and other roads) ACL, B&O and L&N. On the ACL, the USRA light pacific was as much a freight locomotive as it was a passenger locomotive. Not so on the B&O or L&N. The Piedmont roads, ACL, RF&P and SAL, had fairly flat profiles, so this allowed them to use freight pacifics, which all three did, as freight trains could gather quite a bit of speed. While on the subject of flat profiles, I hope that your pike has (or will have) one. If the pacific has traction tyres, it is a good puller. If not, it is mediocre. It will be allright on level track, but on any grade of one-per-cent, or more, the pulling power drops dramatically. The LL 2-8-4 is an acceptable puller on level track (especially N-TRAK) but on anything one-half-of-one-per-cent, or more, it becomes an extremely poor puller. For better pulling power, try the B-mann SPECTRUM 2-8-0 or the Kato USRA heavy mikado. The 2-8-0 is available in NYC. The Kato comes lettered for the P&LE. It represents NYCS class H-9, which only the P&LE and subsidiary P-Mickey had. They did not often wander to other parts of the NYCS, but you might take some modeller's licence on that one. Con-Cor also sells a hudson (passenger) that is a pretty good puller. It appears that there are four versions of this. The oldest will run without its tender. This is a pretty good locomotive, except that after long use, the mechanism tends to sieze. There were two subsequent versions with an electrically live tender. They are supposed to be the best. There was a final version, of Chinese manufactrure, that also had an optional add-on flywheel. I found them to be poor pullers without the flywheel and excellent pullers with it (it has something to do with the balance). They are good runners out-of-the-box, but as they age, all sorts of problems develop, the most frequent being that the tube that connects the motor shaft with the gear shaft dry rots quickly. The B-mann 2-8-0 is a try-before-you-buy, so be sure of your e-Tailer's return policy. It requires extensive break-in, but if you will spend the time, you will be rewarded with a nicely running and pulling locomotive. The Kato mikado is the standard by which all N scale steam is measured. It is amoung the best runners out there. The NYCS version is from the very first run, so you will need to do the traction tyre retrofit. It is a simple swap out/drop in conversion, Kato had a tutorial on its website (there are tutorials elsewhere on the web, as well). It takes less than thirty minutes for a first-timer. Once you do the retrofit, put a fourteen gram weight in the tender for better electrical contact (do not do this if you do not do the retrofit). The tender shell is a friction fit on this one. MT conversions are 1023 on the tender of the MP, 2004 on the tender of the B-mann and there is a kit specifically for the Kato mikado. The LL already has knuckle couplers. Get away from the rapido couplers and go to knuckle couplers, now, while you still have only a few pieces. The better manufacturers have been getting away from the rapidos for a few years, now. I have never heard of a pilot conversion for the MP, the B-mann is the subject of some controversy. I use Z scale on the pilot of the B-mann.
I believe the Boston & Maine used its 2-8-4s in both freight and passenger service. I don't believe there has ever been a model with the Coffin feed water heater though.
Thanks all. (12:21 AM ans home with a fever, still played w trains all day as wife and kids went to family party in CT a few typos)It is a 2-8-4 NKP berkshire. It is a LL. The pacific is Model Power brand. I will be installing the TT when I finish this post. Pictures and findings to be added to appropriate thread. I will have flats in the middle but I Have 3 loops around a 4x6. 2 parallell on 2% grade going up. A third loop going down for a just under 2.5' rise. we will have most of a 56x 32 in the middle to play with frieght. I'll set up the LL with frieght, and will look for NYC passenger. MP had NYC passenger, but, I'm afraid of them. My son has a MP Fed Ex car and I cant swap out the wheels without "kitbashing" They just wont pull off and I don't like the Rapidos, they uncouple on me. I've already installed a MT coupler on the MP tender. None were recommended, but I took a small premade and sanded the sides. This was before I joined so I didn't note it to share. Height was perfect and I used the screw instead of the top of the MP coupler.
Some of the L&N "Big Emmas" (2-8-4s) were ordered for passenger service. And, if you get into Europe, all Berkshires there were passenger power exclusively. Don't assume that what manufacturers release always makes sense.
Considering that Tennessee and Kentucky are full of hills, it does not surprise me that Lousy and Nasty ran 2-8-4s on passenger trains. Those hills do not let you get up too much speed when you try to climb them. The profile of much of the L&N is not dissimilar to that of the Cheesesteak and Onions in Kentucky. (and yes, I am aware that the L&N did make it to the Gulf of Mejico, but I do not recall that L&N often ran their 2-8-4s there). If the Busted and Mined ran 2-8-4s on passenger trains, I would suspect that they ran more often on the East-West main rather than its North-South. The 2-8-4s operated mostly on the East-West main, anyhow. The East-West main has a fairly gentle climb out of Boston, but as you get West of Gardner it goes up and down until you hit the Berkshires, then it just goes up. If B&M did run berkshires at speed on the North-South main, the vibrations would pass through that track and shake apart all of the crummily tracked branch lines that came off the North-South main. Still, I did not know that either L&N or B&M ran 2-8-4s on passenger trains, thank you for the information. I do not know that much about the L&N. My knowledge of the B&M is limited mostly to the North-South main and the Branches in Essex County Massachusetts and in New Hampshire, as I am originally from that part of the world.
If you can find (or borrow) a copy, the special edition magazine "Classic Trains: Steam Glory 2" has a piece on the Berkshires including those of the Nickel Plate. A interesting read. My immediate answer to the question was what Approximate Time Period would be appropriate. The NKP's Berks ran into the 1950's; in fact, the Nickel Plate took delivery of ten more of them in 1949, the final steam locomotives commercial produced for an American railway. So there's a number of different freight cars you could pull behind them.
It appears in the flat Gulf lands, the L&N may have run heavy Pacifics. The light MP style Pacifics would be limited to 6 car trains. Heavier Berks may be required to get the same train over the mountains from Nashville to Chattanooga. I doubt if the L&N was known as a high speed route. Too many hills & curves for that. It also appears the L&N had little or no competition or urge to go any faster. It may have been good enough to be the "Old Reliable." In the diesel era, the L&N was an early buyer of prewar E6's, then mixed in E7 & E8's when they became available. Branchline runs could take an FP7. To answer your question, I would try to run a 4-6 car heavyweight behind your MP Pacific. Longer trains would require heavier power. It would be nice if the Berk could handle a 30 car freight instead of an anemic 14 cars.
The last issue of Model Railroader that had a 'Pike Sized Passenger Trains' article had a L&N train. A USRA light pacific powered the train. I do not have the magazine in front of me, but I recall that it was three or four cars (two head end). It ran in the hilly part of the L&N. The USRA light pacific was larger than any of L&N's up to that time. L&N liked the design so much that it bought twenty more copies in the 1920s (there were six originals). Of the three roads that had originals of the USRA light pacific, ACL, B&O and L&N, all bought copies, as well. B&O's copies had Vanderbilt tenders and ACL's copies had another modification (I forget what it was, now, it may have been drivers that were an inch or two larger). Far more copies of the USRA designs were built than originals, which is a testament to the quality and utility of those designs
Great info, I think I'd like to run the oldest possible frieght cars behind the Berkshire. As to the MP Pacific. Dopey me, I put the traction tires on today. ~8hrs with a fever, before I failed. But not as you would think. I got the Loco to run great, and should have found my problem sooner as the light was flickering. I'm in soldering iron hell. (1 Iron too weak, the other too strong....... I melted and deformed a truck and tender base under the black wire pickup in the tender It powers the light as well. I have an email in to MP for replacement parts. That the Berk was a frieght puller is perfect for what we're doing. we have wide loops on grade in our perimeter, but in the middle my daughter is designing a small farm that will be next to a frieght yard. In that area short trains will be a must. The long passenger lines can have the outer loops. If I get the Pacific back up and running, I'll look for the oldest style passenger cars I can find. Thanks for all the input, don't think I'll be able to find cars for road lines like lousy and nasty though.
'Lousy and Nasty' is a derogatory name for Louisville and Nashville, based on its reporting marks, 'L&N'. Many roads had derogatory names invented by disaffected shippers, passengers or employees. C&NW- Chicago and North Western-"Can't & Never Will', 'Couldn't & Never Would' (by customers); Cheap & Nothing Wasted (by employees) DL&W-Delaware, Lackawanna & Western-Delay, Linger & Wait D&H-Delaware and Hudson-Delay and Hesitate CGW-Chicago Great Western-Crab Grass and Weeds, Great Weedy, Crabgrass Great Weedy. SP-Southern Pacific-Sudden Pathetic B&M-Boston and Maine-Busted and Mined, Busted and Mangled (referring to its poor financial condition as well as crummy track) IGN-International Great Northern-Irishman Going North B&O-Baltimore and Ohio-Beefsteak & Onions C&O-Chesapeake & Ohio-Cheesesteak and Onions P&LE-Pittsburgh and Lake Erie-Pray & Leave Early, Push & Leave Early RF&P-Richmond. Fredericksburgh and Potomac-Run Fast & Push, Rich Folks & Pedigrees (the last referring to the fact that many of its stockholders were members of the Old Virginia Gentry) LE&W-Lake Erie & Western-Leave Early & Walk EL-Erie-Lackawanna-Erie Lackamoney (referring to its poor financial condition from the get-go in 1960) W&LE-Wheeling & Lake Erie-Walk and Leave Early ATSF-Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe-All Tramps Sent Free BNSF-Burlington Northern Santa Fe-Better Not Send Freight CSXT-Cheasapeake-Seaboard-United-Transportation-Chicken Stuff Express Transportation These are just a few; there are many more
Check the thread on MP traction tires before you attempt to put them on. It seems like even MP techs have a tough time with it.
lol - too late. I got the tires on this weekend. I don't recommend it either anymore. It was a long process, that ended with the loco running great, but I had to spend $25 on replacement bits from MP because I severely damaged my tender. Darn it, when I get the pieces and install them, that engine is gonna do a lot of work.
