While Santa Fe is not normally a modeling focus for me, I am among a large crowd in appreciating the prototype for both its class and very attractive paint schemes. That said, how many of you prefer the full, uninterupted, extended warbonnet on the F3 scheme as opposed to the the shortened bonnet interrupted by the stainless grills on the F7? I'll offer Intermountain's HO versions as examples: F3: F7: Obviously not a life or death decision, but if there are others out there I'll encourage you to let Kato know of your preferences. They're way overdue for another Warbonnet F3 to pull the Super Chief. btw: I've already posted the suggestion on Kato's website. :thumbs_up:
Just remember how schitzo ATSF was with the F3's. They had F3's that they re-equipped with stainless grilles. The other thing is that there's always been question in my mind whether the grilles ended up silver by design, or because the red paint came right off the stainless over time. Here's a couple great photo angles that show what I mean.... http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=160463&nseq=32 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=113858&nseq=49 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=49582&nseq=99 I find it hard to believe that they actually took the stainless grilles off, painted the warbonnet inside the grilles, and put the grilles back on, but most times when you study it sure looks that way. When I've painted mine I've painted the warbonnet over the grilles, then painted silver edging on the grilles...that left traces of red and yellow between the grille slots to try to simulate that...sometimes better than others. But you can see - very clearly, that ATSF's intent was to NOT interrupt the warbonnet, but look through the grilles.
Thanks for the great photo links. My guess would be that at EMD, they painted the full warbonnet on before installing the grills. My beef with the model F7's from everyone is that the bright silver extending into the warbonnet detracts from the otherwise excellent paint scheme. Re-releasing the F3 would eliminate the challenge of making it look "right." I'm borrowing this one from Nscalesupply's website (thank's for the great photos Scott): Comparing that photo to the prototype photos, it just doesn't look right to me.
Actually those are all great photos, in my opinion I think Kato should paint the fullbunnett with insertable Stainless shields for this affect and with them painted for modeler choice. It may cost a bit but the result would be double the market. (or what ever market decision is ) They where bent, Corroding, pealing, retaining grime and from what I understand the factory grills where steel and rusted due to lack of rust resistant coatings so they redesigned them and used Stainless to prevent this problem (Unconfirmed though). the reason you see the bonnet underneath is the same reason you can see it, their open and when they where painted the paint went through the latts hence paint painted the inside.
It started with the F3's but the F7's where already out when this problem was revised (also unconfirmed) because that the latts where too big and birds where getting in them and causing motor failular, Electrical shorts and a bunch of other problems. Now my info only comes form a Electromotrician and F unit's and GP's Was his main maintenance engines and from what he was saying Finches where still getting in there so later on they added screening on the inside (depending on the road). R.I.P RED.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=113858 Love in this pic of the yellowbonnet you can see the shop didn't bother to paint the grilles at all! It is still red underneath! Look closely you can see the red/yellow division under the grille. Dave
Well, I painted my own Kato F7 years ago, and this is what I decided on - I painted the warbonnet over the grilles, did the decals over the grilles, then weathered the inside of the grilles slightly, then painted the edges of the grilles silver. I've done more work on this unit since (BLMA steps, etc.) but this still shows the treatment as well as anything I have handy. It's a challenge to get it to look right. All silver is not right. But you could repeat that process with a brush and do what I did.
Wow. Nice work! Comparing that to the Kato factory job illustrates my point exactly. I'm not asking them to mass produce this kind of quality, just do the F3 and it's a moot point.
Actually that's the body like the FT's or the E's you can see through the grills but the grills are stainless Only
A little off topic, but I realized that Santa Fe isn't the only scheme that an F3 shows off better... http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=151017
Right. But assuming it is too much hassle to remove the stainless grilles for painting, I would think that the paint shop would have just sprayed yellow over and through the grille. In this case though, it looks like the shop just painted the main body, and ignored the grille and body behind the grille, it is still red behind there. It would be an interesting detail to add to a model of a yellowbonnet to add the red behind the grilles. Dave
I agree 100%. The NP is the only prototype that I'm aware of (there very well may be others) who religiously kept those stainless grills painted. Here's one adjusted to get a bit more sunlight on the area in question (linked from George Elwood's fallen flags site, Andrew Hegstad Photo): One of my big concerns if/when Kato does the NCL, is that they'll release matching F7s and paint the grills silver. Again, going with F3s would avoid the problem. Raymond Loewy would not approve of shiney silver grills on the best passenger scheme ever.
Yep. For others following along, the NP applied separate metal letters spelling out "Northern Pacific" over the grills on the B units.
It would make sense for EMD to paint the unit before installing stainless steel grills, since they'd have to paint the metal behind the grills anyway. Why paint behind, install the grills and then mask them and paint the rest of it? But when a railroad repaints a unit, it would make more sense just to mask the grill and paint the rest.
One of the all-time worst messes I've ever seen in a real locomotive is an 'unnamed' shortline railroad operator that repainted an F7 without masking over the grilles. Unit looked sharp on the outside, rather well-done. I was doing an equipment appraisal, and entered the engine compartment to look around, and sandblasting grit was still EVERYWHERE. They hadn't covered over the grilles when they sandblasted it! It was in every nook and cranny. I opened the electrical cabinets; it was on the relays, the floor, in little piles on the cables in the conduit ways. Unbelievable. The locomotive was unrunable due to ground faults. No kidding...that grit is semi-conductive. The locomotive was sold for scrap value to second operator that had to completely strip and clean it....again. And it was sold a third time to another railroad that now holds the set in quite high esteem - executive service. But when I saw it, the value of TAPING OVER THE GRILLES BEFORE YOU REPAINT was, hmmmmm......$40,000 per unit? It still ranks as one of the all-time dumbest things I've ever seen a railroad do.
