Shhhh.... I try and keep my age a secret. Old guys like Rob A can get grumpy around us young folk. True story. I did try and keep my age a secret after I first took over Ztrack. I did not feel many long time model train enthusiasts would take a 27 year old publisher seriously. Even though at that point I had been in the scale for 12 years! Rob
Sorry Rob A. I pay you good money not to skew the statistics ! But now that the cats outtada bag, you're toast at next year's NTS ! .
Train guys are timeless. Age don't matter, just passion for the trains! Been in trains my whole life, and I remember being the youngest guy in the train room or at the hobby shop, and I hope to someday be the oldest guy at the train show, or at the hobby shop too! Trains are a way of life, your whole life!
Just thought I would chime in with my two cents. My friend and I were having a conversation about this the other day, he is in his early thirties and I'm in my late twenties. He commented on the fact that I like to model in N and Z scales with the eyesight excuse. To him HO is as small as he cares to go, he also prefers to model steam era. He does this as he has models of locomotives that his grandfather worked on. He also works as an engineer on the BNSF, so he says that he doesn't want to model what he works on everyday. I on the other hand was not around for the sixties, so I can't say I like it because of memories, but I like the locomotives of that era. Everything from GP's, F units, U boats, and more. That is why I choose to model that era. I model small because I started modeling during summer trips to my grandmothers. I could not have my models taking up a ton of space in her small garage in Long Beach, so N scale was what I did. Now I stumbled on to Z when I picked the hobby back up and I'm starting a model in this scale because of the amount of scenery and trains I can fit into an area. Lets see the HO modelers fit more than a locomotive and five car train in the space of a decent size Z scale. Lets face it, if not for family space, then just the amount of money a person has to pay for the room there putting the layout in. Space is at a premium! I know it doesn't seem to fit with the topic, but I just thought I would share the fact that two of us so called young guys aren't modeling modern era. The scale discussion was just a bonus that allowed me to post this.
ok, i admit it ... my theory is shot to heck. it still "feels" true, even if it doesn't prove true. ha ha ha. dave f.
Duude! Don't worry! You can celebrate your 39th birthday for many more years. I've been celebrating my 39th birthday for the past seven years!
Hi Guys, With my age of nearly 49, I have to admit that meanwhile I need my reading glasses and sometimes a loup for the smaller details. It does not spoil the fun with Z scale at all. I switched from H0 to Z back in 1989, because I just love those tiny machines and the space advatage. Farsighted was exactly the excuse not to go into N scale at the time of introduction. Everybody knows how N scale has grown to the second place in modelrailroading. Regards, Frank
This reminds me: GP35s aren't "modern" power. Z actually isn't so good for modern. My personal terminology makes the 60s-80s "the diesel era" and 1990+ "modern". Z is better for the diesel era so far.
Agreed!! Current Z availability is better suited for the "Diesel" era, but Modern is Catching Up very quickly!!!! Hobo Tim
Why Z scale OK you guys. I'm 78 and I have been a model railroader for 60 or so years. The main reason why most of the guys who have been in model railroading for a long long time cannot change to Z is because for years they have been buying stuff for their "future" model railroad. They have closets full of kits, decals of their favorite RRs, scale size styrene strips and sheets, paint, rails of all sizes, locomotives, some plastic, some kits, some rtr and some brass that they are going to detail to the nth degree and paint and weather and now they are much older and they realize that it will never happen. They still do not have the space for a layout and their eyes are failing and they have arthritis in their fingers and all of those years of thinking "when I retire" has arrived and they know without a doubt that they will never ever build that layout. They would like to change to Z, but what are they going to do with all the closets and garage shelves full of stuff in disintegrating cardboard boxes. Most of all, how do they explain to their families that they have been spending all of this money for years for nothing. I changed to Z because I have known for years that I would never have the space to build a decent HO layout. I stopped buying HO stuff long before Z came on the scene. N scale wasn't small enough either. I also changed to Z because, since my eyesight was changing, I knew that I could never see the small detail that was possible in HO. In Z, that small detail can be ignored or molded on or just painted. No need for fragile small bits and pieces. I became interested in trains when I was a kid in grade school. Ice was still delivered to homes in L.A. by horse drawn wagons. My mother would drive past the Taylor Yard on San Fernando Rd. and the sights and sounds of hundreds (yes hundreds) of steam locomotives chugging around Taylor yard just fascinated me. The noise was horrific. Taylor yard was 12 miles long and a half a mile wide, all switching and mainline running was steam. Small 0-6-0 switchers and huge three cylinder mountains, cab forwards and all. There was a large engine servicing yard there. As a Z scale modeler. I like to model the 1960s period. Z scale is small compared to HO or N but when you model today's huge locomotives and extra long freight cars, even Z can take up a lot of space. Of course, with such long equipment, you will not be using a radius under 18 inches. Even 18 inch radius is a little ridiculous for such long cars. Don't let this minimum radius crap fool you. Z scale trains do not look good on any kind of minimum radius unless you are modeling Z scale street cars. Those small Z scale minimum radius curves are for European trains with their tiny 4 wheeled freight cars and not for our rugged North American two truck freight cars. Also modern trains are boring. Unit trains. No small town switching yards. 5 different kinds of locomotives. (just a guess) You could pick one of the small regional lines (CORP) like the railroad that Loren and Joe are modeling. I know that a lot of you like the intermodel yards but I find them very boring. Long parallel tracks embedded in concrete. The only item to make your freight equipment different from all of the rest of the cars are the car number and the ugly graffiti. Do you really think that you are going to build all of those container cranes that you will need to service all of those container cars that you will have. And your RR will only go from 1 container terminal to another. No on line switching. Trucks do the short haul stuff to the final customer. Sorry you guys but I am old enough not to be afraid to speak my mind. Even into the sixties there were long freight trains that were mostly "box car red". Even box Car red was not the same color. Box car red was the color from the natural iron in the ground that rusted and made an easily available color for paint. But the box cars were short or tall, double sheathed or single sheathed, Wide door, narrow door. They had different kinds of box car ends. There were also long trains of yellow refrigerator cars and black tank cars and don't forget the smelly cattle cars. A train of 55 40ft cars mixed with a few 50 footers was not too long. A half mile. About 12 feet. I am a West Coaster so I know nothing about coal trains except that fully loaded coal trains seldom go very fast. That is why they are called "drags". One interesting thing about modern trains is, on the front end of any train, you can lash up locomotives all with different railroad colors. In the days of the early diesels, there were many different types of diesels but most railroad service yards only serviced those diesels that operated within their boundaries. They did not have the tools or the spare parts or the knowledge to work on other locomotives. That is why the RRs that used Alcos stayed with Alcos and RRs that used GM or GE only operated with these locomotives. This was a hold over from steam. Steam locomotive parts were not interchangeable. Steam locomotives in Z are just too much trouble. The American RRs never had a standard steam locomotive. The closest was the USRA locomotives designed toward the end of WWI. Even though the RRs used the same builders, ALCO, BALDWIN, LIMA, they had their own design requirements. Look at all of the different steam locomotives that the HO guys have to pick over. A steam locomotive was not only specific to a railroad but it was specific to a certain territory of a railroad. In model RR the steam locomotives don't pull well. There is no space to add weight. If they have pony trucks, they often derail. Also their detail is much too delicate for old hands like mine and to rerail a steam locomotive, you also have to rerail the tender. Diesels are easier to operate and service. Don't let this old romance of steam fool you. I want to operate trains with as little trouble as possible. For me the whole thing about model railroading is watching model trains moving and having the whole train look as realistic as possible. The scenery is there to make the trains look good and not to steal the show. Actually, to my way of thinking, Z scale is the scale for old fogies like me. We loose our mobility as we get old and a Z scale layout can be operated while sitting down. When not in use your whole layout can be stood on end and stored behind a bedroom door. Ask Lajos. You do not need a whole closet to store your trains. Two full trains can fit inside of an old Athearn box. Just bundle with wads of Kleenex. And the coup-de-grace, you can build and operate your trains inside your home where it is warm in the Winter and cool in the Summer. After the 2008 NTS there ought to be a bunch of converts. The only thing to hold them back is how they are to explain to their wives why all of the monies that they had spent for years on the other scales are being pushed aside. We showed them just how viable Z scale was. Sorry for being so long winded. Bill El Toro, CA
Bill, Long wind after 65 is always a good thing....All of us can learn from folks like you. As a young fart (I'm 35), I'm interested in steam...so much so that I'm in the process of starting a company to make them in Z scale. Remember, though, that the only 1:1 steam engines I've ever seen are rebuilds, half of which don't even run anymore! However, I like to see the model locos doing something besides moving down the track...rods churning, etc. So don't give up on steam either...Z has a long way to go and HO better watch out! :tb-biggrin: My 2 pennies. Doc
What a fantastic Posting Bill! Even if my english is not the best, it was a pleasure to read. Thank you very much!
I do agree with JR59! It's always a pleasure to read you Bill! However, about the interrest of modern era: you know you may still model current railroads running old U-Boats, with or without ditch-lights, and includding cabooses: I mean Mexico. I'm now used to spending some time for my work in Yucatan, Mexico (I used to come to California, but that's now been over for years:tb-sad. And one of my best pleasure there is watching a remote railroad line between Merida and Valladolid. This railroad is barely visible, with its rails totally embedded within vegetation, but 2 trains a week each way run on these. I'm lucky enough to be able to speak a few spanish words, and to hold the Railroad's dispatcher's phone number, in order to be aware of the schedules. On another hand, most of the difficulties I'm encountering with modelrailroading is linked to generic problems: laying track, screwing a Tortoise, wiring, etc... No specific problems linked to Z scale, in order to give a reply to those who argue about their eyesight.....:tb-wink::tb-wink: Dom
Hi Dom, Those Mexico trains sound great. When I was in high school in South New Jersey we had a steam train that went through a small cut overgrown with trees. From above you couldn't even see the train. Only smoke moving through the leaves. For a model RR I wouldn't even have to lay track. Only something that moves and blows a lot of smoke. Bill El Toro, CA
Good Post Bill! You're our kinda windy guy! ) I really enjoy Mexican railroading as well, maybe because of it's inaccessablity or it "necessity is the mother of invention" attitude. You can blend gp-7's and AC's in the same consist...and have a caboose bringing up the rear. Or, make up trains that have both passenger and explosive cargo intermixed running down modern concrete ties or through patches of weeds. Gotta love it! Joe MTL
We need to introduce them to the wonderful world of eBay!!! Bill, I really enjoyed your post. I couldn't help but hear Andy Rooney's voice while reading!
...snip... I'm the spring chicken here, only age 73. I've always thought over the years that a new gage probably can not grow much faster than a generation of people age. It is not likely anyone will call the trash man to toss $5,000 or $10,000 or "insert number here" worth of railroad stuff. What should make Z grow faster than previous gages such as N is the advent of the Internet and things like laser cut kits or even ready built laser models and incredulously easy scenery making. Possibly with gas running upwards of $4/gallon [I paid $4.53 during the Anaheim NTS NMRA show] will keep people home again, and kids and adults too, will get back into model trains. Z is an eye-popper to someone new, and even other gage converts, so it may get more than it's share of exposure. More exposure obviously means more Z. One thing to consider is cost which some folks complain about: I do NOT think model railroading cost any more HOURS of work per piece of rolling stock than it did say in 1940 - the heydays of Lionel. Sure the dollars are up, but so is the hourly wage. ..don a
