TOFC Long Runner Question

I finally got time to put together a Triple-53 Long Runner using the N Scale Kits 89' flats. The results look great, but I ran across an operations problem that I hadn't quite anticipated and I'm fishing for clever solutions. I decided to make a set from two flush side flats - here's a close up of one end prior to adding trucks/couplers and weathering (those are the MLE hitches BTW):



and a shot of the unit in service:


[sorry for the grainy photo]

Now here's a shot of the unit on one of my 20" curves (my planned minimum radius):


The second trailer from the bottom is the one riding the drawbar joint, and you can see where this thread is going - here's a shot of that trailer from the side:



It's a little hard to see, but if you look closely, you can see that the trailer wheels are riding up and over the rub rails on the flat. So far, they settle back down when exiting the curve, but I'm not sure how reliable this situation will be with other trailers (and with the planned series of S curves the will encounter up the mountain in Bealville). I could imagine them binding and causing a derailment, and at the very least, it looks kind of silly.

I can't be the first person to encounter this, so I'm wondering what solutions others have come up with to solve this. Options I don't want to consider are a) removing the rub rails, or b) increasing my minimum radius. I was thinking about tapering the inside bottom of the trailer wheels before painting, but there may be better ideas.

Thanks for looking,
Gary

 

Have you tried putting the trailer's wheels on a rotating bogie? Remove the entire wheel assembly from the trailer and make it a pivotable truck. On wider radius curves, this shouldn't be too noticeable.

 

Maybe a little weight inside the trailer over the wheels ?

 

fifth wheel.........

How tight is the trailer pin when connected to the 5th wheel? Seems to me that the reason for the wheels to ride up like that has to be that the pin will not allow the trailer to rotate at all. While I'm not suggesting running a drill through the 5th wheel( altough it MAY wind up being necessary),pehaps if you took a tooth pick and used it to ream out the hole in the hitch, just enough to knock off some paint, but not enough to actually enlarge the hole. This may allow the trailer to rotate a little,and keep it in position.
Hope this helps....John C.

 

It seems to me like it pretty much works as-is and I'm not sure I'd change it too much unless you actually do start having derailments.

Maybe a little graphite on the bottom and inside of the tires? Then you will have a somewhat prototypical rubber tire mark on your deck and rub rails but it would probably allow the car to settle back down much the same way as filing the tires would. (which I also think is a good idea, but a little more work if the graphite would do the trick)

I would be careful about more weight over the wheels, as that might prevent the wheels from riding up, which is probably the only thing keeping the whole thing from stringlining. Just a thought.

 

!!!:lightbulb::lightbulb::lightbulb:!!!

How about replacing the trailer wheels with Atlas parts?

Atlas trailers wheels have a lot of side to side play, and the axles spin, too, and they have a bit of up and down play. I'm pretty sure they would adapt to the situation here. Whereas the Deluxe axles don't move at all.

There are some 48' trailer parts available on Atlas' website right now, although I'm not exactly sure which ones you need. Hopefully you have some Atlas trailers you can just switch bogies with, and you don't mind the slight difference in appearance.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys, lots of good ideas! I'm going to have to tinker some more and see what works best. So far, I have attempted several trailers through this curve (including a 48' Atlas Pines, Ben) and they all ride up, but by the same token they all settle back down as well, so maybe Doug's idea of doing nothing is best. BTW Doug - I tried some wheel wear weathering on a piece of scrap when I was working on these, but I didn't like the results, so I left it off this time. Still have a few ideas to try out though. Here is a great shot of the effect:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=38650

slambo, rotating bogies sound pretty intriguing. It may come to that.

John, the fifth wheel is quite free - you can kind of see the size of the hole in the first picture, and the third shot shows how much the trailer has pivoted.

Trainforfun, this particular DI trailer is quite heavy already (weighted for Road Railer service, perhaps?) In fact, I would like to remove the weight. Does anyone know how? Removing the floor just yields a cast-in-place sub-floor, so I gather the roof must be a separate part, but it's not obvious to me. Anyone know for sure before I risk breaking it?

Jerry - you gotta build a few of these Long Runners. They're so huge and so cool!

Best,
Gary

 

Yep, the roof on the roadrailers is removable.

 

I've built a few different variations of Long Runners and know about the issue you speak of quite well (although the one I did that has a rubrail arrangement like yours was made from an MT flat). It is an issue of binding and increasing the weight will probably not help.

To resolve the issue on mine, I run 48' Atlas or MT trailers (or custom 53' trailers with MT or Atlas bogies) in the middle position. The reason I use Atlas or MT trailers or bogies is that you can slide the wheels outward on the axle a little, increasing the gauge or distance between the wheels.

This makes a little more room for the tires to pivot around the rubrails without riding up on them. Plus, increasing the gauge allows the axles the slide back and forth in their mounts a little more, which also helps to alleviate the ride-up effect.

The Deluxe trailers bogies have a pretty narrow gauge and, if I recall correctly, cannot be adjusted outward. Filing down the inside of the inner tires on the DI trailers might be another option, but you may need to do a lot of filing depending on how tight your curves are.

I've also tries to figure out ways to duplicate the wear effect that occurs on the prototypes. Perhaps making your own decals from prototype photos might work, as the definition between wear marks might be difficult to duplicate well with paint or chalks. I have not tried this yet, but it might work nicely (I'm going to look into this myself).

Russ

PS- hitches look great, BTW, as does the rest of the car!

 

Russ and James - thanks for the additional feedback. On Ben's suggestion I tried an Atlas 48' Pines (out of the box) but it had the same issue. I haven't tried spreading the gauge any, I will when I get home. Hopefully it doesn't need so much that the trailer looks like a drag racer. Russ, what kind of minimum radius to you run these on? My plan is 20".

I should emphasize that the problems are only cosmetic so far -- no outright failures.

I like the idea of a decal for the tire wear. I was thinking of trying to apply a mush of acrylic tube paint and Bragdon powder with a fresh pencil eraser, but I don't have high hopes for it...

Cheers,
Gary

P.S. Glad you like the cars - those hitches are fantastic and really seal the deal for these cars! Now it's on to finishing up a spine set (with N-02 hitches). I bogged down a while back trying to figure out a neat way to apply brake rigging along the spines, but I can't put it off any longer.

 

Gary-

I run about a 20-22" minimum radius on my layout, so this technique should work for you too (unless the distance between rubrails is significantly wider on your model than on mine). Also, at least on mine, the wider gauge on the trailer bogies is not that noticable and is a much better trade-off with the "ride up" effect, IMHO.

Glad you like the hitch kits! Incidentally, I am finishing up a 48' spine car set myself where I added brake lines and ratchet gear (chain, etc). I'll post pictures soon.

Russ

 

try this............

Is the axle carrier on the trailer moveable? If it is, try moving it a little forward, as the front axle of the trailer seems to be in position. If not, try removing the rear axle and running a lap, then do the same with the front one. Checking the results may give you an idea as to why the wheels are riding up. I also noticed in one of the pictures that the trailer axles sit slightly inboard of the trucks on the flat.If that's the case, then your curve radius may be the problem, and, short of changing all your curves, you might just have to live with it. Just make sure that the train is on a straight section when you take pics and no one will be the wiser(LOL).
John C.

 

BFC1230 does bring up a good point I forgot to mention along with my remedy.

It is better if the bogies are set as far back on the trailer as possible (the Atlas and MT trailers allow for a lot of bogie repositioning...the DI trailer too to a lesser degree).

Moving the bogies back seems to reduce the angle of the trailer on the platform where the bogies ride and the subsequent binding that occurs.

This, coupled with my suggestions above, should fix your problem.

Russ

 

Two things I'll add:
I have both the Microtrains and Nscalekits 89' TOFC flats with rubrails and the rails on the Nscalekits car are larger (not bad, just larger than on the MT)

2nd is: They look great Gary!!

my best,
Jan

 

I did a bit of follow-up testing this evening and shot a few more pictures to illustrate.

First is a low-angle shot of the empty flats in the 20" curve. This really accentuates the angle between the articulated units:



From above it doesn't look quite as bad:


Now the bogies: Atlas on the left, DI on the right:


As has been noted, the Atlas bogies have more play which lets them better accommodate a twist. This play, combined with moving the bogie back to reduce the angle it makes with the flat helps alleviate the creep. The wheel gauge still needs to be widened a bit to fully avoid riding up, but this appears to be a good solution. As the stencil for this trailer position says: "For restricted loading only".

BTW, I tried to get a better picture of the Atlas trailer on the curve, but couldn't get enough light on the inner wheels to be useful, so instead, since I just got a new shipment of DI trailers today, here is a final shot showing the Long Runner with a sweet new load stretching out on a much more comfortable curve:


Thanks again for the feedback guys - I knew the intermodal group here would have some sage advice.

Cheers,
Gary

P.S. Russ - I'd love to hear your tips on applying rigging to a spine kit. Jerry, if you're still listening, I believe you did something similar with a Fuel Foiler set. Any advice?

 

Gary-

Looks great!

Glad the solutions worked.

Got to run now. I'll try to give you more on the spine car project tomorrow.

Russ

 

Sheesh Gary, with Russ's hitches and your weathering, this shot looks practically real, even without ballast on the tracks!

Stop makin' the rest of us look bad...

 

Thanks Ben! I'm flattered by your comment, but when it comes to weathering, I'm really just a copycat. I've read and reread the article by Rich Yourstone and copied his techniques almost exclusively. I also stare at prototype photos and try to copy specific examples. I've found one of the most important factors in weathering to be overall color. In the case of TTX equipment, I use combinations of raw and burnt umber washes, followed by a liberal application of dark brown and dark rust Bragdon powders (blended beforehand), especially on the top decks. These colors really enhance the yellow nicely, and even without any real detailed effects, the overall patina suggests more weathering than there really is. This much is very easy to do!

One of my next copycat projects is to try some of James Costello's methods for detailing and weathering containers and trailers.

Russ' hitches really are awesome bits of N-scale engineering!

Cheers,
Gary

P.S. Thanks for the tip on the Atlas bogies. I still have you down for an ops session here if this line ever makes it past Ilmon...