I think the model railroading world is still largely populated by HO modelers, and a percentage of them, an uncomfortable minority, are very traditional and provincial and condescending to most other scales, except 3 rail O. I for one, relish our role, as the "oppression" and "attitude" bonds us closer together and there is no better crew to work together than a crew of N scale fanatics. Take a local club for example. It is strongly divided between N and HO, and both have their own layouts. On any given work night, the N scalers work like elves in Santa's workshop and have their layout virtually done, except for the most minute details, while on the HO, the monstrosity has been expanded without any authorization by their Board, the work is two steps forward and 1 1/2 back due to backfighting, front fighting, rightfighting, undoing by individuals the "next day", calamities, screw-ups, and power plays. It is almost as fun to watch, but I don't visit there anymore. It is quite obvious that us N scalers have a much different type of bond which is cemented with mutual enthusiasm and interest in what the other is doing, rather than bragging about what one knows or the work. Compare the ambience to HO forums to N forums, and you will see the difference. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
I'm one of those guys some of you refer to as...! I have a N scale layout at home due to space restraints. My early model railroad years focused on several HO scale layouts. I have participated in a HO club the Roundhouse Gang. I've built layouts in O treble track and S American Flyer with updated track and equipment. I have G Scale equipment and track usually set up around the Christmas Tree. The guys and gals I tend to bond with are the N scalers. It's true that we tend to get along better then the boys and girls working the HO club layouts. There are so many varied realms of expertise starting with toy train collectors right on through to the rivet counting proto typers. The thing I've noted, much to my pleasure, the ladies are getting involved in the hobby. It's not just a boys domain and I ask: Why not? Regarding whether or not we are getting the respect we deserve. Yes, emphatically...I'd say we are. Make no mistake we are seeing more products landing on our layouts then at anytime in the past. I'm not sure what the current cash crunch will do to the hobby. Usually when people can't get out and spend lavishly, they start looking at a in home hobby. Me thinks we are going to be fine. Perhaps a slow down in new products and I suspect that will be in all scales. You can have fun...one way or the other. Maybe it's time to scratch build something. By the way I resemble the title of this thread. I used to be red headed but never a stepchild. Perhaps a difficult child, as seen from the eyes of my mother. I enjoyed deliberately getting her goat. And she found ways to get to me pushing all my buttons. A great co-dependent relationship. Grin! The one thing I will forever cherish and respect her for, she aspired to teach me home grown values, to be the best I can be. .
15 years makes a difference, I have returned to US N after a 15 year gap and was suprised to find so many new companies and product, so many that I haven't even give Walthers a look in. It looks as if a UK N scale manufacturer is even entering the US market, and I have seen what they have done in the UK market by taking on the big boys on by producing some great models. Let's hope they succeed and then we won't have to worry. Shaun
In Japan, N clearly dominates, for space reasons of course. HO's dominance isn't worldwide. Think of British OO, most obviously. IN New Zealand, isn't the main scale actually TT? (Okay, "NZ120", TT on N track.)
You might be thinking of HOn3 1/2, HO scale on TT gauge track, also common here in this part of Australia where 3'6" is 'Standard Gauge'. Sn3 1/2 using HO gauge track is also common, and a few use so called Nn3 which actually comes out about 3'4" gauge which is close enough. The place where TT outnumbers N is Eastern Europe, I saw almost no N in LHS's in the former East Germany but TT seemed almost as common as HO. I don't think you'll find much of any of the above in the Walthers catalog, so we're not that bad off in N.
Sorry, Randy. I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't saying that you should ramp up production and get in the Walther's catalog, but rather trying to illustrate that N scale has a lot of offerings out there that aren't and probably never will be in the Walther's catalog.
They used to have practically one manufacturer for H0 and one for TT in East Germany before 1989. N scale was almost non-existent. So TT was the scale of choice. And this continues now, because people already have started in this scale, and sometimes also for nostalgic reasons. There are several (small) manufactureres now for TT.
If anyone ever chooses to believe that Walthers will do the same in N as they are doing now in HO they are choosing to fool themselves, and that in a very big way. Walthers has way too much invested in HO to want N-scale to succeed. And all a person has to do is look at their past to know it to be true. While being one of the leaders in HO they weren't always so and in fact were a major driving force in O scale way before HO was thought of. It was the change in the market that got Walthers looking at something other than O scale (hard to ignore HO when O scale sales began drop) and the transition from Walthers O to Walthers HO took a number of years to happen even as the O scale market declined. Unless and until N-scale reaches a considerably larger market share (I would say, roughly 35%) you won't see Walthers taking very seriously. But, on the other hand, right now we are looked upon far more favorably than we have ever been and that isn't a bad thing by any means. Since the acquisition of Life-Like Walthers has begun to do more in N than they ever did in the past, and I yet believe that we will continue to see new items coming at a fairly decent rate. Athearns is another one I wouldn't count on doing too much, not for at least another 5 to 10 years. Like Walthers, their primary business is other than N-scale and until that market grows more as new items do come out I wouldn't expect it to become a priority to them to include N-scale in a big way. If Uncle Irv was still with us and running things it would likely happen more quickly but since he's gone I just don't think it will. Thankfully we do have manufacturers committed to N-scale and we have every reason to be grateful for that. We all should have a dept of gratitude towards a number of manufacturers who are working hard to make things better for N-scalers. Hopefully with time there will be even more to whom we will be indebted to... but that will yet take time.
Seems to me N Scale is more popular now than ever. Space seems to be the most tangent reason people lean to N Scale. It's simply easier to get a lot in small space. Just my 2ยข...
I agree with Tony Walthers never has recognized the money we spend in the Hobby, but never fear there are many suppliers that do acknowledge us and appreciate our business. Just use one or many of them.:tb-biggrin:
I go along with you guys on Walthers, they short us consistently on structures. Either the building isn't a large or the details and support buildings aren't there. rob
There's a disconnect here. You say 5 to 10 years for Athearn to do much. So the challenger, big boy, Mchenry couplers, new F/FP45's, SD's,s, milk cars, billboard reefers and such, all released in just the last 2 years aren't "doing much"?
Funny thing is, some people criticize Bachmann for not shifting everything over to the Spectrum line (usually rivet counters), yet its the standard line that makes N scale affordable. The Atlas trainman line is another mfgs attempt to provide afordable equipment that has been getting some criticism. We should be thankful to these guys for providing a lower cost line of equipment. (Note to oldrk, I'm not calling you a rivet counter / proto cop (otherwise known as fun stealers), they know who they are )
SWDW I couldn't agree more with you, as a returnee to n scale Athearn is one of those companies who have suprised me big style. Shaun
Yeah, I'm not sure I get this. "Uncle Irv", whom in his 130+ years on this planet never embraced n-scale, would somehow make n-scale a priority? And Athearn "[not] doing too much"? Probably another thread, but would you care to review product releases since Athearn n-scale came to be several years back? (2003?) I think MAYBE Atlas would outpace them, MAYBE...but otherwise an impressive run of new and renewed products.
Simply put one can compare any producer of N Scale to Atlas since Atlas is the undisputable leader in N scale with 40 years experience.I know their N Scale offerings exceed their HO offerings in many areas. As far as Athearn..Athearn backbone in N Scale is the former MDC N Scale offerings except for the fore mention locomotives and some newly tooled cars.Then there is the SD70 series and the SD75s as well. Athearn I think Athearn has made some fairly good advancements in N in the past 5 years..
Athearn ... I really like they their trucks (vehicles). I really like some of their rolling stock (the new PS 3 bay covered hoppers are really nice as are the SIECO and the 53' flat cars). The locos I've yet to bet on. Athearn does not seem to stock parts for their locos. The early diesels were 3 polers (F59PH Rocket!), and the SD70 series had weird cab glass and goofy fans on the long hood. The NEW F45 and FP45s sound like they will be winners. The new steam looks really impressive, but I don't model UP. On the whole I think Athearn is learning what works in N scale, so I expect some good stuff from them down the road. Now if they'd stop running merger inherited N&W hoppers and make some real N&Wish hoppers I'd be a big fan! Mark
Old man Athearn once said, "We'll do N Scale over my dead body." He died. :tb-biggrin: Actually, compared to Atlas the Athearn company isn't even in the race. Sure, Athearn has created two nice (and very expensive) steam locomotives. Meanwhile, Atlas is cranking out oodles of mid-priced diesel locomotives and cars, choking the supply chain (hobby shops) with excellent running items. Always just before someone else is about to release a new loco. Is Athearn getting better? Yes. They did, however, get a big surprise the first year when they expected the other vendors to roll over and die once Athearn entered the fray. Cue superman music. I wish they had just used MicroTrains trucks and got on with new cars and locomotives. This was a waste of development money that should have been used to further the struggle. Time for trucks later once they are secure. The big thing was that when Atearn started, they didn't even have N Scale on their web page. It was a scanned in flier. We N Scalers are a testy bunch, and we saw that as a slight. Give them another 3 years, at least. Maybe 5 years. We aren't that hard to figure out. Keep the HO stuff away from us, we react to it like a hayfever sufferer to goldenrod. Show some spunk, we like that too. Crank it! Crank out models until the die explodes. Then they will be able to challenge Atlas for top dog.
Its not really fair to compare Atlas to any other company in the N scale market, their locomotive catalog is bigger than Athearn, Kato, And Spectrum (Bachman) put together. Also, you seem to forget the SD70/75M, F59PHI, and F/FP45 diesels that Athearn has put out. Athearn is still getting used to this N Scale creature. Personally I am looking forward to their release of the MDC Husky Stack.
Yep! Uncle Athearn did make that comment! so we are lucky he isn't around. On the subject of who's who's, got to say Atlas, Bachmann, kato, Intermountain, athearn, model power. Did I miss anybody? I figure by the time the rest of the pack gets near what Atlas is doing, I;ll be ready for the "big sky Country" and a bronze jar with ashes to spice up the waters of the Pacific. Rob
