Is there a railroad equivalent to the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald?

ladybngnfan Oct 21, 2008

  1. ladybngnfan

    ladybngnfan TrainBoard Member

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    I have always preferred trains to boats, but lately, I have become fascinated with the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Why, I don't quite know. Anyway, I am wondering, is there a railroad equivalent to the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald? I have heard of some pretty devastating train wrecks. The closest railroad equivalent I can think of to Edmund Fitzgerald is the avalanche at Wellington on the GN in 1910. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
     
  2. FriscoCharlie

    FriscoCharlie Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Wellington is probably about the best known example. It sure comes into mind quickly. There was also a tragic wreck at a bridge washout on the Milwaukee Road, Saugus, Montana in 1938. Another might be an awful pileup on the New York Central, which has been discussed in our NYC Fallen Flag Forum.

    Boxcab E50
     
  4. MP333

    MP333 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Off topic I guess, but how many people were killed in that Amtrak bridge disaster a few years back? Mississippi?
     
  5. mbshaw77

    mbshaw77 TrainBoard Member

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    A little off topic of your question but there are some good books out there on the wreck. I have read a couple of them and the conclusion I have come to is there is not a direct answer as to why it sank. Each book has their opinion on why and they present very good cases.

    Though I'm reluctant to share it my personal view is that it was a combination of reasons...not one silver bullet that our society likes to have. The ore carrier was pushed to its engineering limits. Over several years the tonnnage it was allowed to carry was increased. There is also some questions regarding the maintenance of the ship as well as the the weather-tightness of the hatch covers.

    My belief is that with this and the weather conditions that night combined to take the ship down. The ship shortly before sinking passed over a sholl that, I believe, was less then a 120' +/-. Taking into account the the ship was riding low in the water due to the heavier load of ore and possible water leaking through the hatch covers its possible ship may have struck bottom during a wave trough causing possible damage to the keel and bottom of the ship. Later in the voyage I suspect that the bow/mid-section of the ship was hit by a combination of swells. This combination, hull damage, heavy load, water leaking into the cargo bays, and substantial waves caused, I believe, the ship to become unbalanced and unable to navigate the poor seas. A further combination of rouge waves forced the bow into the lake and do to the sudden shift of ore in the hold the ship was unable to recover and forced the bow to the bottom of the lake. Once the bow hit the bottom the sudden shift of ore resulted in extreme forces and with an already fatigues hull the ship split into two.

    Again this is my personal opinion and would suggest you conclude your own.

    Here's a couple of good books:

    The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Frederick Stonehouse
    Gales of November: The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Robert J. Hemming

    And to further deviate off topic. I'm planning to include the Fitz on my layout as a cernterpiece. Though my layout will be based in the mid to late 1980's I've wanted to have the Fitz as an element. Now I just need to find the model on eBay that Resin Unlimited was once selling.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2008
  6. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    If I recall Lightfoot's lyrics, the bell tolled "29 times" for the dead, so that wreck on the New York Central in my home town of Little Falls, NY in 1940 was close, 31 dead. It was the biggest news item that ever happened in that town. If anyone is interested I can publish gory photos of the mess, but would prefer not to. I, too, am interested in the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, being some kind of a descendant of his.
    :tb-biggrin:
     
  7. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    two things...

    1/ a member of the trolley museum in which I am also a member, told me the following story. This man is a member of the Coast Guard Reserve and also a licensed diver.He shared the same ideas about the hatches as you do. This man participated in a "dive" to examine the remains of the Fitzgerald and discovered that a number of hatches appear to have never been fastened properly. He stated that while this was not a legal practice
    it was done rather often. The Fitzgerald was carrying taconite,which is pelletized low grade iron ore. It also acts like a sponge when wet. Taconite pellets are about the size of marbles. Dont ever be trackside when a fast moving train of ore jennies goes by. It can be extremely painful and possibly lethal if one or more of those pellets strike you the
    wrong way. This man told me basically the same theory that you related. One more thing, the Fitzgerald was not out there alone, there were other boats nearby,but due to the high seas, they could not see each other except for brief glimpses. That was a major storm on Lake Superior and on land as well!

    the second thing... Obtain a copy of "Train Wrecks" subtitled "A Pictorial History of Accidents on the Main Line" By Robert C. Reed.
    My copy is published by Superior Publishing Company of Seattle,Washington and is copyrighted 1968.
    That should be able to provide some answers to your questions.

    CT
    and
     
  8. John Barnhill

    John Barnhill TrainBoard Member

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    Maybe not an equivelent but equally known, what about the Casey Jones incident?

    Perhaps he's related to Davey Jones! :D :D
     
  9. Westfalen

    Westfalen TrainBoard Member

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    One that comes to mind is the Tangiwai disaster in New Zealand. On Christmas Eve 1953 a mudslide originating on Mt Ruapehu volcano washed out a bridge Whangaehu River moments before a Wellington to Auckland overnight express arrived on the scene. In the ensuing wreck 151 of the 285 passengers and crew died. I visited the spot in 2005 and it was a chilling feeling to think that at that serene and scenic spot one Christmas Eve over 50 years ago 151 lives suddenly came to an end.
     
  10. ladybngnfan

    ladybngnfan TrainBoard Member

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    There is a Youtube video featuring that song (or maybe it's songs plural), which I watched one night. I didn't really care for it, but at least I've heard it. For all my love of trains, I am not much a fan of railroad music. I used to be, but not so much anymore.
     
  11. ladybngnfan

    ladybngnfan TrainBoard Member

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    Not too long ago, I read a book called Mighty Fitz by Michael Schumacher that was really interesting. He really had some good information and he gave a pretty good overview of the history of the ship, including some ideas of what happened.
     
  12. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Interesting you should mention the Edmund Fitzgerald.........I visited a model railroad in Greeley,CO 3 years ago which also included a model of the "Fitz". Looked pretty accurate, judging by the pictures posted next to it.
     
  13. ladybngnfan

    ladybngnfan TrainBoard Member

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    Some more thoughts on this subject

    It occurred to me today that the Metrolink crash in LA is another railroad equivalent to the Edmund Fitzgerald. And then there was a crash on the Santa Fe in September 1956 near Raton, New Mexico that was discussed in the September 1998 issue of Trains.
     
  14. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    That crash is why there is a rule in GCOR that states how far one must stand from a switch after having thrown it!

    CT
     
  15. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    May not qualify, (certainly was not an act of nature), as related except that it perhaps led to fewer accidents. Below is a picture I took of the current bridge which is 2 tracks wide. The second being for passing. I live about a mile from here.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Kenneth L. Anthony

    Kenneth L. Anthony TrainBoard Member

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    Off the top of my head, would the Firth of Fay bridge collapse in Scotland about 120 years ago qualify as a railroad equivalent to the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald?
     
  17. Ed M

    Ed M Passed away May 2012 In Memoriam

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    Just giving the thread a bump in light of the fact that today is the anniversary of the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald (Nov 10, 1975).

    Regards

    Ed

    .
     
  18. CSXDixieLine

    CSXDixieLine Passed Away January 27, 2013 In Memoriam

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    Off topic alert, but...

    THIS IS JUST TOO SCARY OF A COOINCIDENCE!!!!!

    After not thinking about this disaster for years, today I was actually in a converation with friends about the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald...stop reading my mind!!!! As a kid, I always thought this accident happened way back in colonial days, like 1776 or something, and the Gordon Lightfoot song was just a modern remake of some old sea song. Then about 10 years ago I saw a show on the accident and was shocked to find it occurred in 1975 (duh!). What actually got me thinking about the sinking of the Fitz was a show I just watched yesterday called Destroyed in Seconds (or something like that) talking about some stunt driver that tried to jump the St. Lawrence River from Canada into New York using a roket powered Lincoln Continental. Of course it failed miserably, but I had never heard of it before and when they said it happened in 1976, I remembered how dumb I felt when I found out the real year of the sinking of the Fitz. Wamp-waaaaaaaaaaaa!

    Jamie
     
  19. ladybngnfan

    ladybngnfan TrainBoard Member

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    I was thinking about the catastrophic nature of those two wrecks, as well as the loss of life, rather than the weather that did play such a role in the Fitz's sinking.
     
  20. ladybngnfan

    ladybngnfan TrainBoard Member

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    There is a Gordon Lightfoot song called "If You Could Read My Mind".
     

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