Coupler Question For My Situation

Matt Burris Dec 3, 2008

  1. DaveWonders

    DaveWonders TrainBoard Member

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    I also saw the wheels in stock at DCCTrain and Feather River Trains, and I'm sure Wig-Wag has em as well.

    I never realized how much they cost...about $2/car? And if you're converting from Accumates that's on top of the MT truck cost.

    Elaborate on the "sound" improvement please :)
     
  2. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    This is not a hobby for the faint at heart.

    Mmmmm sound, since not everyone hears the same I will go back to a time and place growing up in Aurora, Illinois within a couple blocks of the tracks and hearing the distant whistle and muffled roar of the wheels running over the tracks of freight and passenger trains coming and going. Hearing it build in intensity as it drew nearer and then the pounding loud roar as it went by and slowly faded away. The clicks and clacks as the wheels ran over the joints in the rails and slight sweals as metal rubbed against metal at high speed. It is just something you tune into and I had twenty years of hearing it 24/7. I find it amazing that a model railroad can produce such similar sounds. Maybe the plywood boards my Kato track is sitting on are amplifying / producing similar frequencies? Don't know except I like it ... alot!

    Jerry
     
  3. Westfalen

    Westfalen TrainBoard Member

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    Probably my fault, I just bought 6 100 packs from them. You've got to keep your eyes open for FVM wheels and get them as soon as they are in stock. They are so good they seem to sell faster than FVM can make them. I switch everything to FVM wheels and eventually to body mounted Z scale MTL couplers but the couplers are a long term thing that get done one or two at a time.
     
  4. Matt Burris

    Matt Burris TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks guys this has all been a great help! I'm actually learning something!

    I know Iron Horse touched on this but I'm still trying to figure out in general how you determine the answer to this question from earlier:

    "So, there were 11 ways to buy those babies. Frightened at first, I just ruled out the "without couplers" types, the "lo-pro wheels types" and the "bulk packs". that left me with only 4 to go:

    003 02 041 - w/ short extension couplers
    003 02 042 - w/ medium extension couplers
    003 02 043 - w/ medium+ extension couplers
    003 02 044 - w/ long extension couplers"

    So what are the determining factors when you decide which coupler shaft length to buy for any given car?
     
  5. SteamDonkey74

    SteamDonkey74 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Matt,

    I haven't found a better way other than taking the car(s) in question to the hobby shop and visually holding up the different coupler shaft lengths to see which of those that doesn't restrict movement too much looks best.

    This probably doesn't help you if you aren't near a hobby shop.

    It would help to have tables of these sorts of things, much as there are tables for coupler conversions.

    Adam
     
  6. pachyderm217

    pachyderm217 TrainBoard Member

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    I consider appearance and ease of manual uncoupling. These two factors can compete.

    For instance, I run mostly 40 foot rolling stock. So far, the short extension couplers have worked for me most of the time, especially on Atlas, MT, Roundhouse, and Athearn cars. Some of my less common cars need the medium extension couplers.
    The small car to car gap with the short extension couplers looks really good.

    However, two MT box cars with short extension couplers don't leave much room for inserting the sharpened wood skewer I use for uncoupling, especially at a full arm's reach and while trying to see through my bifocals.

    By the time I'm done updating trucks and couplers, I may change trucks on some cars 2 or 3 times before I get the effect that works best for me. That's why I don't buy all my truck sets at one time.
     
  7. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Sorry I did not elaborate more on the coupler extension. I had to personally check out a few clearance issues before commenting.

    Your tightest curve radius will determine what will and will not provide the necessary clearance between two cars (when being backed up - pushed into one another). The bottom line is they should not touch each other in any way including attached grates, platforms, steps etc.

    Example: two Atlas 50' box cars with short couplers, the grates at each end of the box cars will touch when backing up on a curve with less than 15 inch radius. Tests were conducted on Kato 19 inch, 15 inch, 13 inch and 12 inch radius curves. I also swapped the short couplers for medium couplers and did not have any clearance issues down to the 12 inch radius curve. I don't have any 11 inch or 9 inch radius curves to experiment with.

    Given your 12 inch radius curves I would suggest the medium coupler extension for all except those cars with recessed bolsters. To define this further look at your present cars and see if the front edge of the gearbox is near the edge of the car body or if it is set back more than an eighth of an inch. In which case you may need to use the long coupler extension on those select cars.

    I agree with prior posts that there is a bit of trial and error as well as trade offs involved, so suggest buying a few of each and try on two like cars and check the clearance in a back up situation.

    I certainly like the appearance of a "close coupled" set of cars.

    Good luck!

    Jerry
     
  8. Matt Burris

    Matt Burris TrainBoard Member

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    Adam, sadly I have no LHS!! They've all been put out of business around here. I imagine that would be the way to do it if I had one though! Thanks :)
     
  9. Matt Burris

    Matt Burris TrainBoard Member

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    pachyderm217 & Jerry, Thanks so much for clearing that up!

    So if I'm understanding you it would be good to have a few here to experiment with, but in general I want the cars as close together as possible without them contacting each other in the curves and having enough room to uncouple with something like rix pick if that's how I want to uncouple? I get the feeling you guys use a lot of short extension style unless like you said the bolster area is deep recessed.

    BTW Jerry, I'm trying to work my plan out to allow the 13-3/4 and 15" combo in the curves rather than the 12-3/8 and 13-3/4 and still be able to retain my easements.
     
  10. Kisatchie

    Kisatchie TrainBoard Member

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    Generally:

    Most 40' and 50' (or longer) cars will need the short extension trucks.

    50' and longer boxcars/reefers with a cushion underframe will take the medium extension trucks. Also, cars with the trucks mounted farther from the car end than normal may need medium extension trucks.

    The medium+ trucks are made for the Micro-Trains 60' boxcars but are used on some other cars. I like the way they look on MDC/Athearn 57' reefers, for example.

    The long extension trucks are made for excess length cars that have the trucks farther away from the car ends and thus need the extra shank length. I think the Con Cor autoracks use the long extension trucks.
     
  11. DaveWonders

    DaveWonders TrainBoard Member

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    Matt also check out the link I provided to MTL's website. They have an excel spreadsheet that lists cars and the recommended part, I believe its on page 2.
     
  12. Matt Burris

    Matt Burris TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks guys that's great info! I feel better understanding all of this! :)

    One last question (for now lol) :) Let's say I have 12 atlas cars I am changing over to MT trucks w/ truck mounted couplers. Do I just take the atlas car, pry off the trucks and use the SAME bolster pin to attach the MT trucks? Or, do i have to buy MT bolster pins??
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2008
  13. jagged ben

    jagged ben TrainBoard Member

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    The MT trucks will come with their own bolster pins, and you should definitely use those. Actually, they will come with a couple different sizes. One of them should be appropriate for your situation. (Always get confused about which is the smaller one. I think you'd want the one on the same sprue as the washer, but I could definitely be wrong.)
     
  14. FloridaBoy

    FloridaBoy TrainBoard Member

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    Just a couple of additional considerations. First Atlas Accumates in their individual packets are less expensive without sacrificing quality. I have had some problems over the years with MicroTrains couplers with droop, poor fits, slinkyism, breakage and a host of other problems, but will not change out a "good truck" until it just doesn't work.

    Atlas and MT's are very interchangeable so you can keep MT trucks on your cars while swapping out other cars you purchase that have Rapido couplers. Some cars are too difficult to change out and are not worth the time and effort so I have a few
    "transition" cars with a MT at one end and a rapido at the other. These are identified by being undecorated cars noticable from a distance. I have purchased cars with MT body mounts, and they are not as compatible or efficient with mixed with cars with truck mounts, and I run all Kato Unitrak. So now, I have a few transition cars with a body mount at one end and a truck mount at the other. I usually run this in front of a MT caboose. l

    One other tip which I am addressing this next weekend are light cars, they are bouncing all over so I bought some lead sinkers from a bait shop and some silicon to weight down box cars. I add coal loads to MT hoppers, and junk mold loads to gons, and now since I run the same lenght of trains you do, I have eliminated any cave ins and uncouples.

    Matt, just do what you feel is necessary take what advice you feel is pertinent to your operation, and have fun.

    Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
     
  15. Matt Burris

    Matt Burris TrainBoard Member

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    Jagged Ben thanks for the good news on the bolster pin situation! Now that you mention it I remember seeing that on That fellow Leo's video when he was changing some trucks. The fact I saw them sold by the package threw me. Thanks!

    Ken, hello old friend ;) I treasure your input as always. It seems everyone has a different little ritual with their trucks/couplers/wheels. I'll hopefully take parts I've learned from everyone and put it to good use. I do like the idea of having them all the same and since I have very few cars I may just do them as I buy them instead of having to come up with a lot of money at once.
     
  16. Mobius1

    Mobius1 TrainBoard Member

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    Thought you might appreciate a bit of last minute input from a fellow young N scaler. I had the same decision about three years back and actually ended up going for the mix. I'm glad I did because I'm not one for getting rid of something I like, and I liked both the accumate and MT trucks. I will say however in my experience with running some really long trains (my layout is quite small, but sometimes I set up miles of unitrack in the livingroom and go all out) the MT slink has been a little problematic. Not enough to cause me to switch out my trucks, but when running 20 or so 89' autoracks and piggybacks, it can cause some nail biting situations. That being said, in my shorter trains it's not as noticeable- unless I have some very light cars or a loco that is not running smoothly.

    As far as conversion was concerned, I did go mostly with MT, and the only cars that I added accumates to were my walthers well cars. All of my atlas cars also have them and in running some pretty huge trains I haven't had any real problems with either coupler, with two exceptions- one being the MT "slink" and the other being one accumate that fell apart on a long train of weighted atlas ore cars (likely a defect in the coupler itself, not any design flaw). Either way I am pleased with both- prefer accumates, but have a larger percentage of MT. Hope this helps and best of luck!
     
  17. Matt Burris

    Matt Burris TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for sharing! It amazes me how a product as highly praised as MT couplers has such a problem as the "slinky". It sounds like everyone experiences it on some level. Sometimes I wonder if accumates aren't just as good or better and just got such a bad rep early on that they will never recover from it. Makes me wonder if it's worth spending all the money. As someone else said, I would like my entire fleet to have the same brand trucks and couplers for uniformity. That's propbably just my OCD talking.. :D

    I am going to have zero grades and pull small trains most of the time so maybe the slinky won't hurt me too bad. One thing I guess I should have asked earlier.. I finally made sense of how the MT couplers work when I saw it in a video. I mean the way you can pull away over a magnet and then come back and spot the car where you want it. That's really cool. I think I might try the magnetic uncoupling after all. I see Kato makes a magnet track piece.
     
  18. Mobius1

    Mobius1 TrainBoard Member

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    Yeah, Kato does have an uncoupler. Haven't tried it yet, but if I decide to use unitrack on the next module in my layout, I'll probably try it out. Kato couplers btw are very good themselves. A bit slinkier than accumates but they grip each other wonderfully.
     
  19. Nuts4Trains

    Nuts4Trains TrainBoard Member

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    Hi guys,

    I've been out of the loop for a few (many) years, but last thing I remember MTL came out with the [SIZE=-1]1015/1016 RDA couplers that were supposed to eliminate the "slinky" effect (ya, it's been a while).[/SIZE]

    Since no one mentioned these, I was wondering if anyone has tried them... and if they have, do they work as expected?

    I have been quietly converting cars and want to know if my work was in vain...

    :tb-wacky:
     
  20. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    The 1015/1016 RDA couplers will not swap out with a FDA coupler as is used on most Talgo style trucks without modifications (see below). As for body mount the same rule would apply. This is due to the location of the stops (molded on tabs) on the coupler shank halves and related opening in the gear box. BTW the stops prevent the head of the coupler from bottoming out on the gear box and creating a drag (bind) effect.

    Cutting or filing off the stops would be required in order to assemble the parts in the FDA gear box, however doing so would cause potential binding and unexpected derailing issues.

    Hope you haven't converted too many cars.

    Jerry
     

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