Suppliers and train shows

This is aimed toward the folks who sell us our stuff and also set up at train shows. I am a bit curious your reasoning for doing the shows. Is it the direct selling at the show or creating awareness or just what is the reason?

 

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

Shows are great for exposure, I think.

For me, with my decals, the "target audience" is not the same as the "typical audience" at a train show. Most sellers who have the normal train items (locos, track, cars, etc) get more sales I'm sure.

Couple that with the price/profit margin (per item sold), the train show is not worth it for me - I, personally, get more bang for the buck on eBay. Now the guys next to my table who were selling S and O gauge stuff, their price/profit margin (per item sold) was considerably higher and probably made the show worth it.

All of this also factors in gas, hotel, food, and time to get to/from the show.

While it was fun, it was not profitable in my case.

 

There are a multitude of reasons why sellers participate in swap meets and train shows. First, most dealers and individuals at train shows know that any given train show will attract more buyers in one day than any individual establishment, garage, seller or hobby shop. Second, many of these people come to see what you have, who you are, and are in a general buying mood with money in their pocket, and they are not there to buy glue.
At train shows there are retirees who make a living buying excess production runs, hobby shop and distributor lots, etc and even estates and make a decent living off it, and travel "the circuit" in their motorhomes working on weekends and living it up and seeing the country the rest of the time, there are hobby shop owners trying to sell inventory for a million reasons, individuals or groups of individuals selling off their excess, train people who accumulate excess selling off trains, clubs selling off donated items not needed, local individuals who travel the local circuits with hopes of making enough to open their own business, and a lot of other reasons. The last and most unbelievable reason is a thief getting rid of "hot inventory" he stole. (Actually happened - true story).

To me, a veteran of many swap meets, auctions, and shows, you get a feel by watching and observing what the vendor is all about, and that gives you more information to negotiate and evaluate how good the stock's condition really is. I have seen too many orange and blue Lionel boxes from the fifties house locos that just don't work, and the seller is gone Sunday afternoon.

After you evaluate the reason, you should have at least minimal product knowledge, and know what you are buying. If you don't you will get burned. I would never buy questionable stock at a swap meet, unless I really knew the vendor, and would not hesitate buying Atlas, Kato, Intermountain, Likelike (new metal frame versions) or MicroTrains.

My last suggestion is for HO, Z and N buyers only. I always take a canvas tote bag to any swap meet; one that has a side pocket on the outside. That way you can accumulate your buys, carry them at all times, prevent damage from dropping, and house your testing unit. I always put a new 9V battery and 3 pieces of clean track one in each scale. If you are buying a loco, just ask the vendor if you can test it and if doesn't agree or tries to use it to raise the price, run don't walk away. Simply put the loco on the track, put each battery lead over each rail and if it doesn't run, at least you know before, whether to purchase, dicker more, or refuse.

Many swap meets have testing facilities at their service tables, but do not assume that to be true. It is way too often I hear some vendors object to the testing table, which to me is suspect on the vendor part, because it tends to "keep them honest' and bring prices down. If the vendor objects to the use of the battery, the 9V battery is a lot softer voltage than 12V of current which an unprotected powerpak could produce.

With some protection and a game plan, attending train shows and swap meets can be 100% more enjoyable.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

 

There are a few e-tailers that do alot of shows driving a van or pulling a trailer and I would bet that if the show is not local,they never make a profit at these shows as stated previously,with fuel,lodging,meals and wear and tear on the transport vehicle they are there for exposure and the business write off. But with-out these nomads there would be no show. This Buds for you.. model railroad show sellers.

 

I see sellers come to the shows and charge MSRP or outrageous prices then discount a little.
There is one guy that comes to the Southern California shows that sells old Trix and Atlas cars and locos for unbelievably high prices.
Then Wig Wag comes along and with their normal prices. The other sellers must hate shows where Wig Wag sells.
I won't buy at list price from sellers at shows. If I am going to pay list price, then i will support my local shops.

 

I don't understand that either. Many of the local shows here have only MSRP prices... if I know I can find the same thing for way cheaper on the web, I will.

I go to shows and swap meets to find deals.. not to pay MSRP. I suppose they do it for a reason. People must be paying those prices..right?

 

Yes, there is no doubt George and Debra are NOT well liked in at least a few train show dealer circles.

After suitable taking of their names in vain, one used dealer basically admitted that no one wants his used stuff when new stuff is priced attractively. That, of course, was always self evident, at least to me. Espeically when half the table is junk, which makes you question the quality of even the good stuff.

 

I have only done a few shows in the UK and only ever been to a US show once: the NMRA in CA last year. I plan to go to Portland this June.

I was/am able to go as part of my flight was paid by work before or after the show, plus a vacation too! Carrying our stock onto the flight caused some amusement. I was doing a clinic [and will be in OR too], so carried all the tools and parts on as hand luggage as I did not want to lose them courtesy of the baggage handling systems. I was pulled out of the line at the Xray machine. I had to unpack the lot. "Ah," says the border officer "now I can make sense of the picture - train parts, but I am afraid sir, that I must ask you to unpack the lot just to make sure." 40 minutes of carefully unwrapping and rewrapping each of the cars for the display, and each of the packs of clinic parts.

The stock and a display stand are designed to fit into a large suitcase, and made it without mishap across the pond twice, although I did send some unsold packs duplicates by USPS after the Anaheim show. I expect a similar arrangement in June.

I really enjoyed meeting folks with whom I have only been in email contact [buyers and other manufacturers and retailers], and this was the main reason for attending. We did not cover the costs, but I think that it was worth attending. We have made some sales afterwards that have occured only because of these meets. I hope that people like to see us and the products 'live' - and I enjoy meeting the customers, some of whom brought their models in to show, and a fantastic effort they were too.

I hope some TB people will come and say hello at the N Scale Collectors meet in Portland!

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
N Scale Kits

 

If I go to train shows these days, it's for the layouts. I have bought a couple items at train shows in the last few years, but mostly I am astonished at how little there is that I would want to own, regardless of price, at the shows that come through my area. Mostly miles and miles of old junk at unreasonable prices. The used stuff I want usually costs double what it does on eBay. I just don't get it.

There was one custom painted Kodachrome Santa Fe SD45 I regret not buying.

 

From reading this it sounds like sellers at train shows in the US are much the same as they are here, 99% shops selling at (Australian)MSRP or second hand dealers selling junk I wouldn't give away to my enemies.

 

Train shows have become as much of a tradition as train stores. It's waaaaaay much more than the bargains. It's seeing all that stuff for sale, finding those special items, watching 100 car trains on monster layouts, and meeting fellow trainheads. All under one big roof. It's a big rush!!!

 

When I was in the business, I did the shows for the exposure. The sales at the shows did not pay for the expense of the show, travel both ways, meals, and lodging.

Gary

 

Actually when I am hunting for N-scale at train shows, usually all the dealers with a decent size setup are selling at their usual lower prices or even with an added discount. I have been to shows in GA, AL, SC and TN, so I can only speak for this area. As a matter of fact, my LHS of choice is usually at every show within a few hundred miles and sells at the same prices they have in the shop (even the same price tags as they have in the shop). They must be making money somehow. I have seen the usual smaller table with a small selection of high priced out of date stuff, but they are easy to spot and only warrant a few casual glances in case they may be in possession of some rare "must have" item. I'll ask the LHS how they fare at shows when I go sign over my paycheck to them on Thursday for my three Dash 8-40Cs Jamie

 

I can't speak as a model railroad dealer, but as a bookseller we do the odd show or conference in our local area in part as a means of raising our profile as a shop and attracting new customers. This is hard to put a dollar amount on, but considering that our average sales compared between the same months in different years (e.g., February 2006 compared to February 2007 compared to February 2008) are showing an overall upward trend, and the sheer number of regular customers is increasing all of the time, I can't help but think that there has been some benefit.

It's hard to know. We've done an event or two where we didn't break even on the expenses and table fees and yet we still pulled in lots of new customers into our brick and mortar shop.

We aren't specialty enough to really go on the road and do this. I would like to eventually build collection of railroad books and materials and maybe do that as a side business under the umbrella of our general bookstore, but right now all my other obligations are swallowing all my time.

Adam

 

If you know in advance that it will be an "odd" show, why do you still go?

 

I'm not a seller. Our Ntrak club sets up at various shows to promote the hobby and N gauge in particular. We are seen as the "unofficial experts" by a large contingent of people who are always asking us questions not only pertaining to our layout but maybe our opinion on this engine or this track or how to do this. At the larger "for profit" shows we accept an honorarium but we do not require it. We also do small one day shows for churches, model RR clubs, volunteer Fire depts. and other such community interest groups. We do not accept any honorarium from these groups and request that if they insist on giving one that it goes as our donation to the sponsoring group.

 

There were two nice, and I thought well-attended, shows in our area until 5-6 years ago, one near New Orleans, and one in Mobile, AL. At both, I was able to buy some very nice and well-priced equipment from the same dealer who only re-sold from estate sales. (IIRC, his name was Jim from the Atlanta area.) However, it seems that the organizers or someone high up decided there was not enough money being exchanged, so cancelled any further shows. Now the closest commercial shows for me are more than 6 driving hours away, in Tallahasee, Atlanta, Memphis, or Houston. There are some Christmas shows every year, but those are not frequented by dealers.

Are there any dealers and/or show organizers reading this thread who can add information, or who might know if a show, or shows are being considered for the New Orleans, Jackson, MS, or Mobile, AL area?

EDIT - I forgot about a show in Fairhope, AL every March in conjunction with the annual street fair. The show's main attraction is four or five well-executed layouts by local clubs. Only a few local dealers support the show, and their selection usually is quite limited.

 

As a small part time manufacturer I sell at local shows mostly because I like to support them. Of course, for me, local shows are at least an hour drive to the close ones and 250 miles away to the farthest one I attend. I have always tried to keep the prices I sell my goods for at a reasonably low price. I still get a lot of people asking if I can do better on the price and my response, jokingly, is...Sure I could charge more.
Another reason for attending the shows is for the exposure. I can get my product in front of a good size crowd of people for less than the cost of an add in a magazine. It still is expensive though. for example, I attend the 2 day show in Syracuse NY each year. The table cost is $50.00, Gas for the round trip $50-$60.00, Motel for two nights $130.00, meals $30.00. As you can see, it does cost considerable money to do these shows which is why you probably do not see many "deals" any more. Oh, one more thing to add to the list. I have to have a valid NYS tax ID # and collect sales tax on all sales. This is one area where I offer the customer a break. I pay the tax. For example, If I sell an itmn normaly for $6.50 I would add 8% to that for the sale. At the shows I still charge the $6.50 for that item but I don't add the tax as the pennies, nickels and dimes get to be a pain. I pay the tax out of my pocket at the end of the year when I submit my payment to the state.

I agree with some of the earlier comments that there is a lot of high priced junk at these shows. I can walk thru the shows and see the same vendors with the same worn out items on their tables show after show. I do stop and look real quick as sometimes they get some new stuff and don't realy know what they have. I once found a Kato Erie Lackawanna C424 or 425 in an old AHM box for $15.00. I had to look it over real good and determined it was worth the risk. It went onto my brother-in-laws layout and has been running perfectly since. Of course on the same table he had Tyco freight cars for $8.00 each so you do have to be carefull.

Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble.
Dan Pikulski
Dans Resin Casting