The feds are trying to sue UP

This was posted on another board and it was locked because it concerns politics. I don't think its in violation of Trainboard policies. If it is I am sorry and please remove it.

This is an article from the LA Times March 19,2009:

U.S. sues Union Pacific over cross-border drug smuggling - Los Angeles Times

Now, I'm not a huge fan of UP (I don't despise them either), but I am even less of a fan of over-reaching government action. I don't believe the DOJ has any jurisdiction of UP cars in Mexico. I think where the jurisdiction comes into the US is when the contents of the cars are reported to Customs. Now, if the company is unaware that there is contraband located in hidden compartments, are they responsible?

Would it be similar to an airfreight company being sued because they allowed someone in Canada to mail marijuana seeds to the US? Would the DOJ sue the USPS because they mail contraband all the time without their knowledge? I don't know if these are good comparisons or not.

Also, does the DOJ sue trucking companies that unknowingly transport drugs into our country? I can absolutely guarantee that there are trucks carrying more drugs in one truck that has crossed into the US from Mexico than the drugs that were seized by Customs on UP trains.

Sorry, but I think the gov't should be focusing their time, energy, and money on things that will yield more results rather than going after a huge corporation. The time and money spent by both sides in fighting this legal battle certainly can be used elsewhere.

Let me know what you think,
Eric

 

It looks like the crux of the suit is the alleged failure by Union Pacific to make sufficiently detailed manifests of their cargo to customs. The drugs are a side issue.

Does Union Pacific have a responsibility to enforce drug laws? No. Do they have to abide by the same rules on drugs as other companies? Yes.

I don't think that the government is over-reaching to ask that Union Pacific submit accurate and complete manifests of their cargo. Now, if federal agents were going down into Mexico and busting into railcars in surprise inspections they would be over-reaching. If we have a general agreement that the Federal Government is responsible for border security and customs and also for drug law enforcement then absolutely they have an interest on whether Union Pacific is smuggling drugs, even accidentally.

Most of us as individuals would also be in trouble if someone stashed some drugs in our baggage without our knowledge and then we attempted to return to the U.S. We'd face, at minimum, an uncomfortable delay and loads of questioning and may even spend some time behind bars.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Adam

 

I could understand it if it was, say, one or two small balloons of cocaine duct-taped to the underside of a boxcar, but if we're talking about tons of marijuana... well, yes, I think they ought to have at least some idea what they are carrying whether it was put there legitimately or not.

 

If I understood the article correctly, the dope was located in secret compartments. So how would UP officials know it was there at all? I have seen some pretty good secret compartments that were extremely difficult to detect.

Also, you may think that tons of marijuana would be obvious to see. But I have seen trucks that passed inspections at ports of entry and have tons (literally) of marijuana discovered in them later. Some of these drivers just do drop and hook operations and don't even look in the trailer. Are they responible for not accurately declaring their load?

Perhaps the crux of the lawsuit is that UP isn't taking reasonalble steps to prevent the smuggling of contraband. If thats the case, then perhaps they are liable. I still think there would a jusidictional issue though.

Something else I thought of is that sometimes the government and denfendants agree to argue a case in court so there is some legal precedence. Perhaps thats what going on here. If the government prevails, maybe they will go after trucking companies and other railroads. Who knows.

Eric

 

We'll see. The thing about these short news stories is that they almost never get to the major points of the lawsuit. Perhaps Union Pacific has been warned numerous times to do a better job inspecting their cars. On the other hand, perhaps they had no knowledge of any of these until someone showed up serving them with lawsuit papers.

I would love to see some of the documentation but I bet most of it is privileged communication.

 

The way we see people get on and off trains near the city limit in San Antonio, I don't know how any carrier could know what was on the train even if it is not near the border. I agree that their manifest should be accurate. They should take "reasonable" steps, but surely they can't stop it all even if it is not crossing the border. Trains are an easy target for a lot of things in the open spaces of the USA. It just sounds impossible to stop all of it.

 

When cars are interchanged between two railroads in the middle of the US, does the receiving railroad break seals and open every car checking its contents against the manifest?

Or do they just accept the manifest papers (either electronically or hard copy) and move the car on towards its destination?

Ed

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UP anonamous

My two cents as an employee...(about to get bumped...damn it)

Well first off, I realise I can come off a bit disgruntled, disalusioned, etc etc, at times. I am, at times. But I learned a long time ago how these games are played. So at the risk of offending.....You really think this is new?

How do you think a gazillion dollar infrastructure game gets funded?

Railroads, even rich successful class I's get there share of grant money. So the DOJ is out to carve there slice to help fund the DEA. Since the DEC helped nudge industry down to mexico leaving the IRS a day late and a dollar short.

Its not a case of who is right or wrong. To me its whats wrong. Some jerk in the DOJ sees a cutback on his/her horizon. So he dreams up this one. Easy target, evil corporate entity.
More drugs pass into this country carried by a stream of illegal imigration than the UP could haul on purpose. But weres the flash in that pan?
So the UP takes a beating. They were reporting big profits when there layoffs started. They didnt care one bit about job loss over NAFTA in other industries, all they saw was revenue. Just like so & so at the DOJ sees.
So not long before todays topic. I was walking around with a mushroom cloud questionmark over my head about the sudden lack of need for trainmen and trackmen. The strict-er enforcement of drug policies. Like what, they dont need us anymore?
(( Quick math from the dark side, test 100 guys can 3. At a cost of 750 ish per test, Wile good men dont work becouse profits are down. ))
(( Like the FRA cares so much about me, that they have all sorts of ways to fine me, to keep me on my toes?

I never did drugs, and I dont need a Fed crawling in the weeds for me to, try real hard not to let anyone on my gang to get killed.

I can tell you for a fact. A certian percentage of illegal drugs came into the country in the 80's via duty free overnight bags from central america after "war on drugs" training opperations.


So
I think the biggest problem with the government and corporate america and all of us with 401k's in the toilet...

To many people who produce nothing. From welfare rats to fake back injuries to lawyers ads on TV to self important corporate/government waiste, floating smoke screens to divert from the fact there not nessacary. Untill they cause a cotastrophy the can fix.

The real problem is..... There isnt enough of the collective "us". For the collective "them" to feed off anymore. So whatever "they" do to eachother, will end up costing "us".

 

Well... I better stay on task with this one. he he he... I just think it's funny. Reminds me of those old Elliot Ness gangster shows set in the time of prohibition.

The scary thing to me isn't contraband. It's just so obvious how porous our national defense is. That is scary. What else can someone get over the border?

And yes, how far are we willing to go to enforce things? Seems to me it's a customs issue. Then again, if you scare people enough they'll go for any kind of law.

Ok, I sort of stayed on subject.

 

I used to participate in archery back home in Nebraska. Every few weeks in the summer we have a target shooting jamboree with 3D foam animal targets. There was a BNSF line that ran right next to the range. The story goes, a group was shooting some targets along the edge of the property and one guy who unfortunately missed the target, nearly hits a Mexican guy who just jumped off a train. The police come and catch the guy and a few others and their story was they rode the train in from Mexico.

Point is, you can never know what items can be missed durring inspection. Whoever put them there obviously does not want customs or the carrier to know of their existance. And when you place the blame on the carrier who has no real connection with the contraband, you're giving the real criminals a sense of security knowing that if the items are discovered, the carrier takes the blame.

Target the source, not the carrier.

 

Geez, yeah blame the by-stander.

Which in this case is U.P. Not that the feds have done a d-----d thing to protect our borders. Eight and a half years after 9/11 and I'll bet any terrorist worth his salt could slide a "Mike" size nuclear device across our borders.

Not to start a "flame" but God forbid that any one interfere with "commerce" or cheap labor.

p.s. "Mike" - look up the specs and tonnage for the original fusion device.

 

Just like the government, blame everyone but themselves for failing to enforce our southern border. What's needed is to station National Guard troops along our border... not inspect sealed boxcars. The inspection will be done by the customer in any event.

 

Ok, this thread is starting to slide into the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" territory.

From what I understand, UP's defence is that they don't take control of these cars coming across the border until customs has cleared them. If this is the case, how can UP even be targeted? If customs has missed anything illegal, it should be on customs.

 

Right now, I'm thinking UP should sue the US Customs for not detecting the drugs, causing the tons of marijauna and stuff to weigh down empty cars, costing UP money for extra fuel!

Seriously, the US should drop the lawsuit.