If Kato produced USA prototypical Unitrack...

Ok, I went ahead and just turned this into a simple poll. So all speculation and reasoning aside.. Kato produces US Prototypical Unitrack and it's offered in the exact selection and pricing as it's current line. What would you do?

 

How many years did it take for Kato just to acknowledge that its instructions were incorrect for selecting power routing/non-power routing for the #4 switch? And how long has the #4 switch been manufactured without incorporating the two simple changes that would prevent derailments? See John Sing's explanation: http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1169116702043565227IWohlK

The answers may give an indication as to the speed with which Kato will jump into changing its entire line. I'll let my unborn great-grandchildren speculate about such things.


Ben

 

With the vast offering in existing N Unitrack, it would be difficult for prototypical tie spacing to get a toe hold unless all of the different pieces of track were offered immediately. Atlas True-Track looks good, but they offer such a small selection of pieces that it will be a long time before it catches on, if ever. It is sort of the chicken and egg thing. Few current modelers will switch given the limited selection, so the potential popularity of the new idea will be obscured by low sales. A manufacturer such as Atlas, for instance, has to be committed to the long haul to be successful with True-Track.

I would like to see more prototypical appearance, but doubt that it will happen. The appearance of Unitrack is fine with me as it is.

 

I think the key point to realize here is our U.S. market is a value added market for Kato. When a company can market or sell one product in two arenas this creates a "Value Added" position for them.

Retooling for the new product may not yield enough return on investment for the "Bean counters" to fund.

Here is something I found a few months ago.

When I was researching for my uncoupler patent I came across what looked to be the unijoint patent. Checking futher it seems as the Tomix track came out in 1977, a patent was issued about the same time that unitrack came out (1980). When I looked at Tomix and Kato's track they sure looked simular in the molding detail which makes me think what's what?

In any case I think it would be a hard sell to justify for Kato. Notice how pre-orders are used to guage interest and dictate full production decisions. As someone stated the market would be flooded with unitrack but the reality is a small percentage of "big players" (You big layout guys) would upgrade and the majority would opt to purchase the used unitrack instead of purchasing the new line created. A divide in Kato's own market by Kato themself would not be wise.

I think these companies do a good job in managing their products to keep them and us going. It is a pain to wait for releases but in the long run we put food on the table instead of spending all our money at once.

Inodu

 

I would most likely convert only when I start a new layout. I dont really think I would want to tear up the present layout just to convert it. To me the spacing of the ties is noticeable, but only if directly compairing the two different brands. In a layout with just the Unitrack I really dont think the difference is too noticeable.....Mike

 

Bob....reading the Unitrack group is kinda like reading the comic section in the newspaper on Sunday. Most of what I read there is always good for a chuckle at the very least...if not a full all out ROFLMAO!. :tb-tongue:


.

 

I don't know what is so hilarious about a group of modelers discussing a product that they all use. Fortunately, there are plenty of track choices now in N scale, not like the old days, so you can use Atlas track in two different rail sizes, Atlas TrueTrack, Peco, Fleischmann, MicroEngineering track (if you can find it), and other brands I am sure I have missed, or you can even hand-lay your own.

If you don't care for this sort of track there are plenty of other discussion on other types of track that have already taken place or that you may initiate if you would like.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

I know I would buy the "American" Unitrack if it were offered but that kind of investment (i.e. all the tooling) would be huge. I think they would be reluctant to make that kind of investment as we are already buying Unitrack as is.

The United States is a very small market to Kato and while I believe they want to increase their share, everything they do here right now is high margin. Locomotives, passenger car sets, even Unitrack (because the fixed costs are spread out over so many units sold). Why does Kato do passenger cars and got out of doing freight cars? Because we will pay $20-$30 for a passenger car and only $10 to $15 for a freight car. We complain about paying $100 for a locomotive and Japanese consumers quickly sell out $150 sets.

Enough with the economics, the fact is while we want it, I don't believe we will buy it is sufficient quantites to get it.

 

I'm curious - how many HO scale models of Japanese prototypes are there on the market? My mother is Japanese, so I've spent considerable time over there with family. Although I'm a U.S. modeler, I'd still like to have a few examples of Japanese prototypes for my collection, such as the Yamanote-sen (the green Tokyo commuter train) from the '80s, when I spent a lot of time there as a teenager.

I've looked through Kato's website, and although it doesn't show much in HO, I'm guessing they've produced more over the years. Does Tomix or one of the other Japanese model companies produce HO models?

Back on the subject, I love Kato's Unitrack, but I only use it for test running and for "fun" around Christmas time while I wait for the day that I can start my own layout. I'd prefer to have the look of U.S. prototype track, and I would convert slowly if they produced it, but it doesn't affect the reliable operation I get that suits my purposes.

Dave

 

Am I missing some inside joke here?
If not than I have to interpret as being disrespectful to Bob and the members of the Unitrack group. Bob has put a lot of work into putting that group together where the members have a chance to exchange ideas and educate one another and that's extremely positive thinking.
I find you can make two choices in certain situations, you can be either constructive or destructive. To me, Bob chose constructive...what did you choose?

 

Tomix, like Kato, make a very small amount of Japanese HO, but it's a very rare scale over there because not many have the space for it, from what I've seen in Japanese hobby shops HO has a much smaller percentage of the market than N scale does in the US. The amount of Japanese HO Kato produces is about the same as it always has, in fact in the latest catalog a few items like the C56 2-6-0 seem to have been dropped.

 

Guys - I apologize, I was in a hurry and didn't realize I was posting to the N scale forum. I haven't been here in a while...

I'm fortunate that I collected a small number of Japanese models in N scale during the summers I spent in Japan, although most of them are Tomix. I always thought that they did a better job of capturing the look of the real thing than Kato's.

Dave

 

For a long time, Sekisui Kinzoku (Kato) made product for others. (I have some of the Con-Cor pieces.) They make (have made) a few Japanese steam (C57, D51), electric (EF58, EF65), passenger, and freight. I don't see that they ever produced anything for the Yamanote line.

 

I must agree with Bob, Nice thought, but were too smaller share of their market. But if they ever did I would convert most of my track or is that called an expansion:tb-confused: Cause I sure wouldn't throw away the old stuff. Probably would expand and relay the old track toward the back or a hidden portion of the layout.
Got to keep it Real!

Glen

 

Ok, preliminary results are in! As far as the polls, it's mostly what I expected, except for those 3 "will not buy the US proto" votes. But maybe those guys are actually modeling Japan prototype railroads, so who knows.

I must say, reading the responses to this thread though, no wonder Kato hasnt made US proto Unitrack yet! It's like nobody wants Kato expand their horizons! So go ahead Kato, close up the research department, and just keep producing things you already have molds for. We dont need the El Capitan, it will cost you too much to tool and compete with your Broadway Limited sales. And why did you do that Daylight train? That's totally US specific, your bigger Japan market wont be interested in that!

Again, I'm hearing, "we're too small of a market share for Kato." The sole fact that Kato USA exists is proof enough that Kato is interested in what we want. Apparently no one is willing to tell them. :-/

 

After watching this post for a while, I kept coming back to the same place.

I dropped using Kato UniTrak a long time ago because it did not meet my needs with respect to curves larger than 15" Radius. True, they also have the 28" and the 19" radii, but there is a big gap between all of them. Atlas Code 55 did a better job of doling out curves, but they also stopped after 21.5". Again they have the 30" and 72" curves but like Kato, there is a lot missing in between. So for most curves, one has to use flex track.

Next, there are the turnouts. With only two sizes of turnouts, the #4 and the #6, there isn't a lot of choice. And while they may be good and reliable, the way passenger cars and other long wheelbase cars contort through them makes them not so great from my perspective. With no wyes, the choice to use UniTrak gets a bit more difficult.

I will say, while I did use UniTrak for many years and was happy with the running ability, the tie spacing never really bothered me. Being a believer in performance over looks, UniTrak was fine. It was not until I had started to design my current layout that all of the operational issues for the layout were not compatible with using UniTrak. For my layout I needed much larger turnouts for crossovers because the ATSF ran full speed over crossovers, and that would not work using the #6 turnouts.

If Kato increased thier selection of track where they had #10 turnouts like Atlas, and if they had wyes and a few other things, I could easily have stayed with Kato UniTrak, prototyipcal ties or not. But they did not and I had to go in a different direction and gave all of my UniTrak away to my younger brother, who is just getting started with model railroading.

I believe that Kato's vision in fixed upon the small layouts common in Japan, and as such, we will never see any product that helps promote larger, more prototypical styled layouts.

It is a good product regardless of the tie spacing if it fits the needs of the modeler. It just came up short in several key areas for me.

 

I come from old school and use cork roadbed with Atlas code - 55 track and have had very good results plus the good looks, the cost is acceptable as is the tie spacing.

I think it all boils down to what one likes and can afford, as you know we all have some sort of a budget for modeling.

 

Seeing that I have to much money invested in the old stuff (Kato Unitrak) the only way I would buy anything new that was made to U.S. prototype would be if I decided somewhere down the line to build another layout. And here lies another problem. Time period..... wood or concrete ties with correct U.S. spacing. Though Kato has produced some track pieces in concrete ties, they clearly need to add more to that line. And also have to create a whole another line with wood ties. So would I go modern or period modeling? Only Time would tell..........
Railheadz

 

And one more thing.....
If Kato was to make track correct for U.S, spacing I would prefer that they did the turnouts correct for U.S. prototype. And design the movable switch points like on the #6's and the crossovers were the rails are nice and ridged. The movable rails on the #4's are weak & flimsy and become problematic were they go out of gauge and the points have to be filed to eliminate picking & derailments. I know that this can be done as it's done this way on the crossover. It's escentually four #4 turnouts with the movable rails built in the fashion of the #6 turnout.