I don't know if it is just me or others may have the problem of settleing on a track plan and getting on with the business of finishing a layout. I seem to procrastinate myself into stagnation at times. So, I need to settle on whether to have grades or not on my small HCD layout. What are the foumites opinions pro and con to having grades on small layouts. Thanks Ralph
IMHO...grades are just another area that could cause problems. I like to enjoy my trains with as little headache as possible.. .
You bunch of flatlanders! Grades are actually easier to come by then one first realizes. I've had grades on my layout from the time I was 12. My teacher would come along and grade it. A for alright. B for beginning to get there. C for when do you do scenery?, E for trains running erratically, and F for well...I can't repeat that here. Kidding of course. Look grades are easy. Use this rule: 1/4 inch rise for every linear foot or 12 inches = an approximate 2% grade. Now the guys doing millimeters or metric can figure it out for themselves. Not in my job description. The real key is to start your grade with less then 2%. Transition gradually until you are at 2%. It will look smoother. Practice on a small section of a 1x4x3. For me, the flat land railroading just doesn't kick it. Have fun!
pro: it looks nice, adds interest to your layout con: its a pain to get right, im working on some myself, you have to make sure everyhing is right. i would say if you want a challenge add some hills!
I love hills. But I tend to create the illusion of hills. rises scare me alittle I guess because like mentioned up there, I also like as trouble free running as possible. I add mountains and tunnels, bridges, but most always my track is level. I add small rises in between double tracks, and hills a around the track to simulate that the train is going through the hills. It does create the illusion of grades. I don't have any photo examples, because my latest layout is still in the Pink.. But point being, you can have a flat layout, that is nearly as interesting as a graded layout by creating that illusion.
I would like to have grades for the operational challenges. However, I could not figure out how to leave enough flat space between grades to allow for the type of local switching I desire. I will have grades on a future layout, but not this one. Jamie
On the "original" JJJ&E which was in operation for over nine years, the entire double track mainline was graded. (2%) The highest point on the mainline was 7 1/2 inches below the low point. I pulled 28 car trains with F-3 "ABBA" consists and double headed steam locomotives to pull about 22 cars. On the "new" JJJ&E, I'll have a 2% grade that rises a little over two inches at its highest point. It will be much shorter in length than the grade on the "original" JJJ&E. Grades can easily be done and the layout can run successfully if you're careful in planning the grade.
I have a fairly small room,13X13,but I run large trains,60 cars or more,so I never put grades on my mains,in fact,I go out of my way to put aqdjusters on my layout feet to keep my benchwork level.Now,I do HAVE grades,but they're all on operational branchline sections of my RR,areas where I'm in direct control of a relatively small train,not where I'm running a train that's all on it's own..
No worries and no rules Ralph!:tb-cool: Don’t worry about changing your mind, I do it all the time and enjoy the heck out of it. It actually keeps me from feeling stagnated. Try some grades on your HCD layout and see if you like what you come up with. You might want to try using the Woodland Scenics risers. As for myself what I am modeling calls for zero track grades with hills, valleys, river and bridges rising above and falling below track grade. Either way accomplishes the varied terrain to track appearance that keeps a layout interesting. Good luck! Jerry
Thanks for the replies. I need to decide on two ways to maybe accomplish the same thing. Have grades or create the allusion with scenery details. Scenery is new to me and I need to look at all the possibilities it presents. Look forward to more replies if anyone has anything to add to the fine input so far. Thanks again, Ralph.
Don't forget the ever important cross-overs. If you want one part of your layout to cross another (without using a crossing), you'll need a grade for that. I do plan to have grades on the JACALAR, primarily for the above reason, but also plan for the scenery to help create some of the illusion in my "mountain" area. By starting with a 3 inch foam base, I have a lot of "below level" scenery which can be put in, without actually changing the level of the track. But, I do have a couple of cross overs to deal with.
I have a small layout and I used grades simply to gain more track length but if I had the space I’m sure if I would not have a grade, except in my hump yard. My grades have caused me a lot of headache in the design process. I quickly discovered that not only is there problems with steep grades, but also clearance problems if you cross over another track. I had to redraw my plan at least 20 times to get it right. It’s been over a year now and has still not had the finial test with a train.
I do grades with ease now. Getting here was another story. It took years to get it down...and I mean years. Grade after fatiguing grade. Exasperating moments when I was ready to give up and be a "FlatLander". Finally, a visit to Harry Hunters home gave me the visual I needed. He had mastered it and I learned from the master. Now, it's slick and easy as pie. Now wait, I haven't quite mastered making a pie. Perhaps a poor comparison. If at first you don't succeed try, try, again. Fun yet?
I also have been playing with my track plan for a couple of months but just started to transfer it to the foam this week. I was raised in Kansas and live in Colorado now and much prefer the mountains to the flatlands so my layout will have grades!! I was having problems trying to figure out how to do it but finally bought some WS inclines and it was the best $5 I ever spent. I am limiting it to 2% grades as it will also be on some 13" radius curves. I will start a new thread this weekend to show the (slow) progress on my layout.
You said you had a “small layout”. How small? If you are trying to have an up and over you could find yourself with very steep grades 4% or better. Avoid that like the plague. Actually, they have a cure for the plague and there’s nothing you can do about the degradations of performance and reliability caused by sever grades. . .But I digress. If you can try to keep the mainline flat and have a branch line with the grade.
For those who want an easy way to judge a 2% grade, get a 1-foot level and glue a 1/4 inch piece of metal or wood to the bottom at one end. Put the level on the track and if it shows level, then your grade is 2%. That's for nScale. Dave.
Hey thats a good idea, I'll have to do that. I don't have a 1ft and my other levels are to long for a small layout. I'm going to search for one as soon as I finish typing. :thumbs_up: I'm back. Wow searching for a 1 foot level turned up a lot funny stuff, but I finally figured out that its call a 12 in box level. But anyway if my math is right, maybe I can use a 3/16 spacer with my 9” torpedo level.
To my mind a grade on a HCD layout usually takes away valuable space that could be use for other things like industries or a small town scene. Also,I have never and will never endorse unrealistic steep grades on small layouts which can cause problems. -------- Papa wrote:Have grades or create the allusion with scenery details. ------- IMHO that is the better or perhaps the best approach.
Actually, that's for all scales, including reality (1:1). A grade is a grade, no matter what scale. It is the necessary length of the grade to achieve a given scale height hat changes with respect scale. (i.e., what takes 8 ft in n-scale, takes 16 ft in HO)
