This is probably not a big deal for most but..... I switch from N-Scale to HO scale for a few reasons. One of them was the larger scale should be easier to work with since it is larger well..... While the details and sound of my new and expanding HO fleet is great I have also found that darn are these things delicate!! compared to the N scale locos I had. Now for the real rant, Proto 2k. Why in the heck do they insist on selling the locos with the couplers not installed and almost non existant instructions to boot. So here I am at my desk in my poorly lit basement attempting to install the couplers on my GN F7A locomotive and looking at the bag of very very small parts and a microscopic spring that has to be installed with the skill of a surgeon (or at the very least dentist tools). And of course, the sring magicly jumped out of my fingers to some other dimension. I spent an hour on my hands and knees with a flahlight looking for the little bugger. I think it fell into one of those micro blackholes created by that new particle collider in Europe. Anyways, so now I am looking at the fact that I dont even have the skill set to install a blooming coupler!! %#&^@* I will probably take it to my local hobby shop (the same onethat fixed my Challenger that I destroyed tring to change wheelsets). My confindence level is sinking fast. taking apart and working on my little, tiny, itsy bitsy N-scale locos never gave me these kinds of headaches.....what gives? Oh....and another rant, Why are many of the cars and locos made so darn delicate? I was taking a Walthers autorack of the box and boom, one of the door end piecs ripped right off the car because appartently it got snagged on the box. Now mind you, I was not pulling the car out of the box like my typical gorilla finese. But I was actually trying to be careful. I know I can fix most of this stuff but again, I rarely ran into this sort of problem in N-scale. I switched to HO becuase I do like the bigger models, sound, and I was able to re-use some of my stuff from my original layout from the 70's and 80's. I also thought hey, as I get older HO will be easier to work on.....I guess not In my own defense, maybe this is more of a brand thing. I have taken apart my Atlas, Atheran Genesis, and Kato locos without too much hassle. Kato thus far has been the easiest. Servicing my MTH Challenger was a nightmare and so far my Proto2k Locos have not been a real joy either. Just a little frusturated
Don't use the P2K plastic couplers anyway. If you pull a train of any length, they'll break. Use the Kadee whisker couplers as the drop right in & work great!
I agree that installing those couplers on the P2K out of the box can be a pain.... My advice: Get better lighting in your basement. Be patient. Be careful. Try and control your enthusiasm when opening those new packages. I know your excited but you're an adult for crying out loud...LOL Good Luck!
Is it possible that you changed from N scale to HO, and also changed YOUR mindset? You handle N scale with kid gloves cuz it is so darn small, it HAS to be made of spider silk. So you get tired of all the innacuracies in that scale and jump to HO. Your mindset jumps too. Everything is larger, therefore must be stronger. Not So ,Weedhopper. All my life, I have handled EVERYTHING like it was made of spidersilk. My cars, motorcycle, stereo, trains, guns, tools. I have no problems with any of it. Think of yourself as a surgeon in all aspects of llife. You will save lots of money.
According to my wife, I am just a big kid I just have to learn how to better control these big meat hooks that are supposed to be my hands. Yes I am computer professional now but I spent several years in the infantry, Mortars and Artillery in the military....and nice I am trying to handle precision models I installed new decoders and sound in my Kato SD70MACs last night and did not break anything
Thanks for the advice on the Kadee couplers...I was thinkg about using them (used MicroTrains in N-Scale). Their conversion chart online is alittle out of date (October 2008). Anyone know what coupler to use for the F7 A&B?
I did notice that Proto is abnormally delicate. I try to handle my Proto locos (2 C-Liners and a dummy FA2) as little as possible. I've learned to be especially careful when I do - after gluing handrails and other assorted details back on a few times. I replaced the couplers with Kadee #5s when they weren't installed already (some used stuff). I don't have that trouble with my Athearns and other locos in the roster.
Buy a bulk pack of Kadee #5's or the whisker #148. You will be needing alot of them. They should fit 95% of your equipment. A #13 coupler sample kit might be a good option also. Comes with an assortment of couplers, and tools so you can test fit for yourself.
I've installed Kadee #58s on some of my HO Proto 2000 diesels, includiing one GP7 I custom-painted for Frisco. Sturdy, rugged, and metal.
Well, as strange as it may be....I found the spring under my keyboard (how it got there I am clueless). But now after reading the feedback about the less than desirable plastic couplers, I am going to look into install the Kadee couplers. Thanks for the advice and moral support all
Matt,Sorry about jumping in late.. Now then.. I also found HO is becoming a tad to fragile..I accidentally broke off tiny detail parts I didn't see while putting on KD couplers. Wait till you find the different gear ratios LL used on their P2K line..Don't understand the reasoning behind the "gear ratio of the month is:" that LL used. I got fed up with the fragile details and went to N Scale and haven't regretted my decision..
All this ranting about fragile details has got my twisted mind cogitating. I think that we are mostly victims of our own gluttony for detail. HO scale has both the blessing and the curse of being just large enough to accommodate this kind of detailing while still being small enough to be practical for layouts in limited space. But being at the limit means that the details are delicate. I remember way back when detailing on HO was added on by people who painstakingly filed and sanded down the molded-on stuff where necessary and then just as painstakingly applied the new and improved details with the least amount of glue possible. Then they used kid gloves and/or a superconducting magnetic tractor beam to handle their trains. In other words, they were careful because they actually did the work and were aware of how fragile it is. Now that the manufacturing technology for creating this level of detail is economically practical and marketable (i.e., we don't need to do the work ourselves anymore), we get inundated with it and of course, we drool over it. It's a normal male instinct - you've just got to have what's bigger and better. Not that it's a bad thing. It's just that some of us haven't adjusted our handling habits to the new reality. Myself included until recently. But since we're all adaptable creatures, we learn from our mistakes and eventually take more care on where we put our clumsy fingers when we handle our toys. So we either adapt, or do as brakie did, change scales. Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together.
We will have to start a support group for clumsy train handlers All very good points. I have fond that my recently arrived Genesis locos seem to be pretty robust (still have to be carefull though) compared to the P2K locos I have. I have not put on the handrails for my Kato locos yet. I have done this on N scale Kato locos so I am hoping that it will be simular.
The horror of changing scales again I just switched from N back to HO (ten plus year span). I am really liking the DCC/Sound aspect of HO so I will continue on the HO path for awhile. Plus I like the larger size of layout details such as signs, grade crossings, automobiles, etc. This was the trade off I pondered between N scale and HO scale. N scale allows more scenery to train ratio, longer trains, more trains but at the expense of smaller layout details, lack of sound in most locos. It was a tough decision process as I already had a large investment in N scale and had to start over from scratch to switch to HO. In the end for me, the appeal of larger trains, sound, and larger layout details won at the expense of more layout in a given area and longer trains.
I absolutly hate working on newer proto engines, like the newest Athearn engines, they have gotten down right fragile to even touch, let alone get the body off the chassis without breaking a grab iron. Just another reason I like my older brass and diecast steamers and blue box athearns.
I can tell you this, if the P2K couplers are not installed, then you have an EXCELLENT opportunity to install either the Kadee whisker couplers or what I''ve already done to mine, Kadee #5's.
The Switch from N to HO Like you, I recently made the transition from N scale to HO. I had to stop working on N-scale stuff because my eyes just couldn't deal with the strain (long hours in front of computer screens has taken its toll). I guess my youngest son couldn't stand the thought of me going without trains (my N-scale empire was dormant for the last 4 or 5 years), so this past Christmas he got me a LL P1K RS-2. Nine months later and I have the start of benchwork and almost a dozen locomotives. I have purchased a number of kits and RTR cars, and have noticed some differences in the types of plastics used. P2K and Branchline's BluePrint series are by far the most detailed that I have worked with, so I will just talk about them. The P2K plastic is almost brittle. I cannot tell you how many times I have broken parts while trying to cut them off of the sprues (even brand new blades don't help!). It's infuriating. On the other hand, I have started assembling a heavyweight sleeper from Branchline. The background data they provide is nice, and the quality of packaging and plastic (much more flexible and forgiving) are great. However, they don't number their pieces and expect you to be able to identify them based on their proper names / terminology (I guess all that time hanging around the railroad museum may come in handy). So ask yourself this question: are you playing with toys or are you working with model replicas? This small change in mindset may be all it takes to get those meat-hooks of yours to caress your treasures instead of just snatching them up like a snack.
My mind says I am working with model replicas....my "Meat Hooks" say it's slab of beef. That being said, I have not broken anything further since the start of this rant (hoorah for me). however, there are some projects I am delaying until I have set up a better work area with proper lighting, and investment into some better tools (loco cradle, jewlers tools etc). I had a nice workbench setup at our former home (where the N-Scale layout was sloooowly being built) but since we moved to our current home in January, I really don't have anything setup as of yet. I am hoping to have the attic space cleared out this winter (after my current college semester ends) where I can set up a temp working space and an extended test loop. I say temporary because massive remodling and roof work is scheduled to take place (well start anyways) the first half of 2010. Until that is done, I am not going to start any real layout construction. But yes, I totaly agree with you, changing my mind set to be aware of the fragile detail parts will help me refrain from using less than polite vocabulary.
Quick update and a couple of quesitons: Well I have made it all the way to March 2010 without breaking any additional equipment. Came close yesterday working on my Genesis SD60M, the handrails had popped off at some point as I was taking it out the box. They are not broken and I should be able to reinstall them. I decided it was a good time to stop work on the loco fleet and pick it up again sometime later. Question 1: I still have not gotten around to installing couplers on my Proto F7 locos. What is the difference between Kadee #5 and #58. Are the #5 also metal? I really like the idea of using metal couplers, in my mind these would seem more durable. Question 2: Handrails, is it a bad idea to glue handrails in place? I read on another forum where someone had stated that by gluing the handrails in place, there is more of a chance that they will break as there will now be no give in them. To me, gluing them in place seems like a good idea. Seeking the wisdom and experience of others.
The Kadees are both metal. #5 is the 'standard' one, the #58 is the more recently introduced 'scale' unit which is closer to 1/87 prototype knuckle size. As the 58 is smaller there is a bit less tolerance in operation - vertical height difference with adjoining couplers and lateral alignment for coupling - so you need to be a bit more careful with installing them properly and not having seriously uneven track. You can mix 5 and 58 on your layout - they interoperate fine, subject to correct alignment. Handrails - if they will stay in place without glue I don't use glue. If they pop out all the time I glue them
