I haven't posted often since I joined in 2004, but would appreciate any advice from those of you who have the knowledge I lack. I had an HO layout for a while, it is a 4' x 6' layout. This was ok for a while, but the Mrs and I redid our living room just before the economy went sour. We replaced the fiberboard with drywall, painted, and bought our first "new" furniture. With the new furniture came the problem that the old layout wouldn't work any longer. There just isn't enough room. It's a very small cottage type dwelling. I have no basement and only an attic just large enough to store small items. I've decided that N scale is my only option for something to run that will fit. I can only work with 30" x 45". I can't do anything at this time, but I'm hoping to do something after the new year. We have to wait because my wife's hours have been cut due to the economy and currently we're just scraping by. Medical bills, since I have some health issues, are taking money away because insurance won't cover everything and what it does cover is only a percentage. You get the idea, I'm sure. But, all that being said, I'm really looking forward to having something to do. I miss running my trains. I'm not out a lot because all I have are an HO loco and a switcher with some rolling stock that was given to me. So my losses are minimal in the HO. What I would appreciate is help with what can be done with a 30" x 45" layout. I'm playing with ideas, but I'm an inexperienced modeler. I don't really care for just switching, I prefer to also have something where I can "run" perhaps an oblong stretch as well. I have NO experience with N scale. The only other board I visit is Atlas and they have been of some help, but if anyone here has thoughts I'd like to hear them. I'm trying not to get too excited though because if the economy stays bad I won't be able to do anything at all and I have no other hobbies. I suppose if I stick with name brand makers I'm pretty safe with locos and rolling stock. I have no idea how well made or how well an N scale loco or switcher runs. I've noticed the cost is about the same as HO. Forgive my rambling on, but I'm trying to give you a decent snapshot of what I'm up against so you can render advice with as much info as possible for better guidance. If her hours return to normal, we will still be tight enough that I'll need to be careful in my spending. I hope I'm not violating any rules in this post. If I violate rules, it's by accident or ignorance, not on purpose, so please forgive me in advance if I have done anything that is a no-no. If you wish to contact me in private, please feel free to do so. I'm a PRR fan and PC. I'd like to model from the mid 60's through perhaps the mid 70's era. It happens to be the time I most remember from being with my father while out on railroad business. He had 40 years with PRR, PC, and ConRail. My grandfather had 50 years with PRR and was an engineer, my father worked up to supervisor, then when the PRR went belly-up, he bumped jobs to take a maintainer position and remained a maintainer for the time of PC and ConRail. Ok, this is a huge post, sorry. *chuckle* I hope to hear from you folks and will check back for any possible postings. Many thanks in advance. Blessings and best wishes to you and those you hold dear, Pastor David J. Kress, Sr.
Pastor David, There are plenty of n scale layouts that you can squeeze into your space. Truth be told you are a prime candidate for z scale. Check it out after all the n scale guys pile on. Check this Z out. http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/6936 Good luck, Jim CCRR/Socalz44
Pastor, Have you looked at dave vollmer site he has a great layout that is the PRR and schould give you some ideas. Also where in ohio do you live. If near cleveland then you schould come uo to berea this weekend to the fair grounds There is a train show there. Alan
Too bad you couldn't have kept the old layout and slid it under the bed. Later, slide it out and set it on the bed for the hour you would have to play with it. I would want to cover it with a light sheet for obvious reasons, but you would not have to spend a nickel!!! If your eyes are good, Z is a possibility...although you would want a brighly lit place if your eyes are getting older...you need a lot of light to appreciate any details at all, and not just on the rolling stock and engine(s). Otherwise, it sounds like N is your practical choice. Still, keep the board under your bed, covered, or stack it on its edge in a pantry out of the way. A determined modeller can 'git 'er dun'. :tb-biggrin:
Here's a link to Dave Vollmer's site. Here's a link to Kato's N scale track plans. These use Kato Unitrack, but you should be able to adapt them to any quality track.. Some people don't like to use an integrated roadbed track in a landscaped layout, but for my money you won't find better quality track than Kato Unitrack. John Sing has a site with pages on painting and ballasting Unitrack. Check out his 4'x4' layout here. And, for what it's worth... I would seriously consider downsizing to Z scale as others have suggested. Hope this helps.
Take a look at this site, "The Mad Trackplaner's Page", which has a number of designs for small layouts in N scale. While you may not find exactly what you're looking for, you'll at least get some ideas of what might be accomodated in the space you have available. http://www.cke1st.com/m_train2.htm#less_2x4 Good luck with your new layout. Regards Ed
My layout is made up of 3 30x40 foam core art boards. These are sturdy, light weight, about 3 bucks each at your local art supply and perfect for a situation like yours. I would also recommend using Unitrack. For a layout this size, there's really no cost benefactor with other track, and you'll have the least problems (if any) with unitrack. I think only reason not to use unitrack for something like this is if you reall want correct prototypical appearance. Over the past few years, I've build several small layouts using these art boards and unitrack. If anything, the two most important concepts I've learned is to keep the track plan simple and to use some sort of view block in the center. With a simple track plan, you get a layout that runs well and does not look like spagetti. But dont be fooled, a simple plan can be quite complex to design. My favorite example is fellow user Poppy2201's design process. You can see here all the steps he goes through, making sure every track has a purpose, and getting input from others. Nonetheless, we're all here to help make the process easy. For small layouts, view blocks will devide up the scene, giving you at least two distinct destinations. Watching trains go in circles can get boring, fast. But with a backdrop, or a mountain that rises up in the center, blocking the view of the far side of the circle, you see the train in motion from one spot to the other, and not back again. My favorite example of this is fellow user envirodude's Central VA Door layout. Try not to be discouraged by his exceptional scenic skills, but instead see how BIG his door sized layout looks. I hope to see something unfold and soon! Good luck with the planning.
All good advice, and thank you. To be perfectly honest I think Z scale is too small for my eyes. I wear bifocals and have worn glasses since age 11. I can't even pass the eye exam at the DMV without my specs. When I looked over the N scale goodies at a store in Columbus I thought this is quite small. I looked for quite some time and with great consideration before I thought, yes, I can do N scale. Going any smaller, I believe, would take away from my enjoyment as I would struggle to enjoy the locos, switchers, etc. I'm already due for trifocals, according to my optometrist. I cannot focus across a grocery store isle or a person I'm talking to without looking over my glasses, removing them, or looking at them through my bifocal part depending on their distance from me while conversing. I'm 50 miles due west of Columbus, Ohio. I have to travel a little better than 100 miles round trip just to visit a train store there. I want to support a storefront business, but some of the prices via internet make it enticing to do business via UPS to save some cash. I appreciate all that you folks have brought forth. I'm checking everything that is being suggested. I thought about flex track so the layout wouldn't seem too perfect or ridged, but I am leaning toward Kato True Track (can't recall the correct name) so that I may have fewer problems. It may seem odd, or humorous, for a 52 year old man to get so excited about getting a setup going, but I truly miss running a train. I still break out some of the stock, the one geep9 and the SW3 switcher I have just to even look at them from time to time. I love looking at them. I'll have a couple of sidings as well as the oval so it won't get boring. I like moving things around. By the way, do the N scale trains run on the same voltage? Perhaps my power supply that I used for HO will still be able to be used? I'm such a greenhorn! *chuckle* I like the idea of breaking up the layout by adding something in the middle to make it appear that the train isn't running in a loop. So simple, yet so effective I bet. It's these little tips that can add so much enjoyment to the route. I'll stop here for now so you folks don't get bored with me too quickly. You've no idea how much I appreciate you. This is a great hobby and you folks are a friendly bunch. You seem to give advice as though you were friends speaking to their buddy with ideas to help the friend further their enjoyment in a shared hobby interest. This is unique in a world where self interest rules. Nothing selfish about you when you're so quick to lend a helping hand for a fellow hobbyist. Blessings and my very best wishes to you all. Pastor David J. Kress, Sr.
Many of those who advertise here on Trainboard have both storefronts and commerce websites. Check them out here. Ah, something I missed in my last post. Kato's sectional track is called Unitrack. True Track is the Atlas brand of sectional track. For more in depth reading on this topic, check out this thread. My simple opinion is that you could really choose either, but the difference boils down to look and operation. True Track has the superior look for track in the United States, but Unitrack has some operational advantages. We also have a huge knowledge base for Unitrack here in the N Scale Kato Unitrack Users Group, complete with a sizeable photo album to see what others have done with the sectional track.
Hi Pastor David! I'm a converted HO lifetime collector who downsized a number of years back and went to n scale when my 2 little ones came along. Like you I have very limited space to work in also since giving up my rec/train room to my kids to use as a play room. I am currently building an n scale layout 4' x 4' on 2" thick foamboard. It is pretty basic with 2 mainline loops a mountain, tunnel and a river crossing. It is called the river valley railway due to the river and mountain. I have a small collection of PRR, BN,PC, NW,Chessie and Conrail engines. Its been fun! Anyhow if you would like I can send you a few extra n scale power packs I have I'm not using along with some atlas track that you can use to make an oval or two with. I think there may be a switch or two for sidings in the track lot also. I had all this stuff laying around looking for a good home to someone who could use it. Send me your address and I will send it to you free of charge to get you up and running with track and a couple power packs. All you would need to do is get an engine and some freight cars then. Let me know if you would like it and I'll box it up and get it out to you. I've had plenty of help over the years in the hobby and would like to pass that favor along to others when I can. Also, I do live in Berea, Ohio and we do have a very fine trainshow this weekend at the Cuyahoga County fairgrounds with lots of dealers and wonderful club layouts to look at! If you can make it up I do recommend going to this train show! Regards, Wayne
Wayne ... this is very gracious of you Yes, Wayne ... I'll gladly accept that offer. My wife will be shocked though as I'm always a reluctant one to accept help. *chuckle* This time around though, I'm very anxious to get going. I do have a power supply from my HO. If you think I may need yours I'll happily accept. I have "ZERO" N scale anything so I would put to use anything spare you have. If I had the funds available I'd get some things, but as my post indicates I'm unable to do anything probably until after the new year. I'll see if I can send you a private message to give you my address. This forum befuddles me a little bit. I type a post then it says I have to log in again. I'm not sure if I take too long to write, or what. Sometimes I get an error message as well. This is very much appreciated, Wayne. No rush either, take your time, and send it as cheaply as possible for your own sake. The only thing I have to offer in return is a heartfelt thank you and my sincere appreciation. Check your private messages and let me know if you do not get it and we'll figure something out. Blessings and best wishes, Pastor David J. Kress, Sr.
Hi Pastor David, I sent you a message to your PM box. Your pm box is located up by the welcome next to your forum name at the top of the page. Click on the private messages under your forum name. Just reply to my message and send me your address and I will ship it out to you. I have a bunch of stuff I can send that I will not need for my layout that you are welcome to. It is all extra stuff I had left over after my initial layout was completed. I will take stock of what I have and get it out to you late next week. It pleases me that you will be able to use the things I am sending to get your layout up and running. I hate for stuff to sit around not being used! HA HA HA!!! I'd rather pass it along for someone else to enjoy then just sit unused. You are very welcome to all I am sending you. All I ask is that you put it to good use and enjoy yourself thoroughly while doing so!!!!! Regards, Wayne
Hi Pastor David! I got your address so I will let you know when I ship out the box of goodies so you can keep a lookout for their arrival. Talk to ya! Wayne
My sincere thank you Thank you, Wayne. I'm looking forward to N scale. Even more so now because things are moving with your thoughtful gift. Whatever is sent is just another thing I don't have to find money for, so I can focus on finding a switcher or loco. If I'm lucky, who knows, maybe I can have something to run before next year It would be nice, on those cold winter days and nights, to have a train up and running. There is something peaceful about running trains. It's your world when running them. You can run them as you please, at your own pace. It's a wholesome hobby too. I suggest the hobby to many folks. I'll be lurking the board frequently, even if I don't post. I'll try to gather information about N scale. If I posted I'd only remove any doubt about being a greenhorn. *chuckle* The only thing I could share is the memories of my father and his 40 years on the railroad. Thank you again ... and I thank those here who have offered their advice from their experience(s). It's all appreciated. Blessings and best wishes, Pastor David J. Kress, Sr. P.S. One day, when I have gained experience, I'm determined to try my hand at a snow scene. I've always loved trains in the snow. Perhaps it reminds me of going with my father to light the gas heaters at the switches. Once in a great while, he would stop by the drug store and dart in to grab a bag of warm cashews that we would munch on while enroute to light those heaters. It's a fond memory.
Hi Pastor David! If all goes as planned, I will be sending your box out to you this Friday the 9th. Be looking for it to arrive shortly after that. There is enough stuff in the box to get you started building a small layout. You will have to pick up an engine and some freight cars. If you lived closer I could help you out with some extra 2" thick foamboard I have laying around I have that is extra I wont need. I like building with the foam board because it is light and easily set up and tore down as needed. Take care now. Wayne
Hi Pastor Dave, Well what kind of locomotive were you looking for? I seem to have an excess and I would rather donate than try to sell on the evil e-bay. So I can give you a start on a few cars and a locomotive. You can't have track without something to run it on. PM me and we can figure this out .
DCESharkman ... thank you Thank you for your thoughtful offer of help. I told the Mrs about Wayne's assistance, and then yours. I told her, however, that I hope you fellows sure aren't thinking I'm looking for a handout. This is two of you now offering to help me get a system up and running. I'm extremely grateful, I truly am. But I can't help thinking that you guys could indeed be selling what you aren't using. It's tough out there making ends meet and I'm sure you guys are watching your pennies too. I'm sure you could use the extra funds by selling your items to someone who has a little extra cash. Don't get me wrong, please, I do not wish to come off as rejecting your gracious offer by sounding ungrateful. You know your situation better than I would. While being grateful I have no wish to interfere with someone making a little extra cash. You paid hard earned money for your items and I would think that, during these financially trying times, perhaps you could return some of that expense back to your wallet. Maybe you could take a loved one to a movie with it, or go out for a long overdue dinner date. I'm just thinking is all ... not being ungrateful. I just don't want to feel that perhaps I could be depriving someone their due out of their thoughtfulness toward another hobbyist. Okay, that being said, I want you folks to know that I appreciate just what a thoughtful bunch you truly are. The advice, the offers to help me with items, all of it. I'm just trying to be considerate toward you the way you are being thoughtful toward me. I'm not a very computer literate person. I ask my son for help frequently, but he doesn't have a lot of spare time. If I get something going, I'll try to post a photo. The family bought me a $100 digital camera last year. They all chipped in. I was playing with it the other night to see if I could take a decent photo of a boxcar. It didn't turn out too bad. I had to take many to get it adjusted, but I think if I can figure out what to do to post, I could start sharing ... providing it would be of interest. I've seen many of the photos that appear here and I probably would only embarrass myself. *chuckle* I am going for a mid 60's to mid 70's era, give or take a couple of years. I remember the PRR and my father's PRR truck, but my recall is better of PC, then ConRail. So, I'm shooting for a mix of PRR and PC. If I'm going about this all wrong, please feel free to let me know. The size that I can comfortably get away with is a 30" x 45" area. I'm not going with a strict oval track, but rather that basically with 2 or even 3 sidings. I'll try to break the scenery with something in the center. I'm a huge switcher fan ... I love those little unsung heroes in the yards. So, I'll try to get one switcher and one loco ... perhaps a geep9. I still remember the use of a caboose quite well, so that is something I'll have eventually. Anyway, I'm just typing away as though I were sane. *chuckle* Sorry, I must be tiresome to read, rambling on so like this. Thanks for the well wishes, thoughts, and offers. I'll be lurking and trying to learn things. If I get the urge and feel some stories I have might be of interest, I'll consider posting them. My mind moves faster than my fingers, so I think my typing may come off a bit incoherent. Thanks for understanding and patience. Blessings and best wishes to one and all. Pastor David J. Kress, Sr.
Question I neglected to ask ... Considering the area size of the projected layout (30" x 45") should I only go for a 4 axle loco because of the limited width of 30"? The curves might be too tight for a 6 axle. Also, perhaps I should limit any rolling stock to 50'?
By operational terms, as long as you keep the radius of curves at or above 11 inches, you should be able to run 99% of the products out there. The only down side will be how funny that 60' car looks on such a tight curve, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm perfectly fine with my 11 inch curves. The best thing you can do to disguise the tight curves is put in easements. You won't be able to get away with much, but even the smallest easement helps the look.
