Hi. About 15 years I started on my first HO layout, the Granite Gorge and Northern. It was about 50% done when my teenagers wanted their own rooms so I had to dismantel and throw out my layout so I could convert my basement into bedroons. I sold off the cars and engines. I loved the layout design. Now years later I am thinking about building my first N scale layout but I am not finding many plans on the net. I have found Mike's Small Trackplan page and found a couple of layouts that may have possiblilities but I am not there yet. I have limited room, maybe the size of a door or a little bit more. I am looking for a layout where I can run two mainline trains at once, have lots of switching options (like the GG&N), has no reversing loops, has bridges and can be up against a wall. However, even if I find a layout, I am concerned going to N scale as it is so small, I am used to HO. I have heard that N is much more prone to derailing, switch problems and lack of detail. And the price of the rolling stock is just as much as HO. Can someone convince me to go with N and offer up a nice layout plan? Joe
Here's a link to the Atlas website for the trackplan. http://www.trainsetsonly.com/page/TSO/PROD/150-HO28 If you have a space problem, then N is the way to go. The above layout is 5 X 9 in HO, so it should fit on a Hollow Core door - with some tweeking. I would suggest getting a copy of XtrackCAd -- it's free and using it to design your layout from the trackplan. There is a Yahoo user group dedicated to helping users - Xtrackcad does have a learning curve, but once you understand the basics, it can prove to be a useful tool. As for all of the problems you have mentioned, they are prety much resolved now - can't comment on cost though - but it is a fair statement. As far as detail goes, take a look at the new stuff - Bachmann Consolidation, Athearn Steam, and now we have sound. As with any guage, your trains run only as good as the workmanship. I might suggest looking at sectional track with roadbed (Kato or Atlas) and use that as a starting point. Hope this helps some - I am sure others will chime in. It's a great time to be in N....
I really don't like the GG&N. It's essentially a double-track figure-8, but then it has those single-track cutoffs. They take up a lot of visual space simply for the purpose of reversing trains. Though, because it's a double main with no crossovers - correct me if I'm wrong, but it has no reverse loops? To run two trains and have bridges, I'd go with a double-track figure-8, with crossovers. Without those cutoff tracks, there'd be room for more spurs.
I would have to agree that many of the tales of woe are not because of N scale, but because of poor track design, no transition curves, or improper track installation where the rial is uneven because of uneven roadbed etc. Being a bit OCD about track, well I have found every problem with turnouts and derailments was due to improper setup and installation. I will say, that even I have had trouble spots, but when I stepped back and looked at them again, I see where I did not do something right. So do not dismiss N scale based on Urban Myths about its reliability. One place to look for layouts is the local train or hobby shop and pickup the Linn Wescott book "101 Track Plans for Model Railroads" It has a lot of different layouts and sizes. One word of advice I would give you is to decide on your layout size, and find the HO sized layout you like, and now build that using N scale track. This way you have broader curves and more scenery area to work with, and the train look and run great doing this. The HO sharp curve is 18" radius I believe, but that is a very good sized radius for N scale. Also, if you use the HO layout locations using N scale track, the grades will be cut in half, almost. So broader curves and easier grades makes for a lot better running operation.
If your space is what you describe, you won't have room for 18" curves. It would be good to have a more precise idea, because every inch counts in this size range.
DCESharkman's post had some very good suggestions. Many problems with early N scale layouts were caused by scaling down HO layouts, leading to sharp curves. Given care in track-laying, N scale can be as reliable as HO. These days, it seems the "less is more" philosophy has prevailed over the spaghetti-bowl, where designers crammed as much track as possible into a given space. Real railroads are, with a few notable exceptions, very linear and bone-simple. I've been very satisfied with mine, which, apart from the vertical geometry, is about a bone simple as I could make it.
Well, I bought a book from Atlas and found a layout that looks very nice and is the kind of layout I was looking for. It is called the Gulf Summit Lines and Susquehanna Valley. It has the dual mainlines I was looking for as well as enough switching options to keep me busy. Only thing is it is a little bit bigger than I wanted. I can fit 3'x7' with not much problem. This layout is about 4'x7.5'. So I am still considering if I have the room for this. Joe
This one? http://www.trainsetsonly.com/page/TSO/PROD/150-N18 That one will take more than 4' to run nice. The parts list shows it using 9 3/4" and 11" radii. https://secure.atlasrr.com/mod1/customkititems.asp?kc=K11018 The layout is nice - looks like you could have 3 or 4 trains running without a lot of trouble. It would just take more space than you have to scale it up to 18" or better curves
Definitely too big. Two double-track loops (or a double-track twice-around) is just too much for a door layout.
Yes, that layout. I would build it as is, no changes. Looking at it closer, it is only 6.25' feet, not 7.5'. And I am thinking the design may call for 4' wide table but the actual track may need somewhat less. So I am looking at it more closely. Joe
I would be careful about trying to "squeeze" this particular layout. The tolerances are pretty tight as it is. As already mentioned, it makes use of 9 3/4 and 11 inch radius curves. While I don't have anything in my accumulation that won't run on 11 inch radius, including large modern diesels, there is the question of "looks"-- it works, but it doesn't look right on this size of curve. Some modern rolling stock might not like the 9 3/4 inch radius curves at all. If I recall correctly, there is a way to keep a train on the 11 inch radius curves all the way around the layout, so perhaps no worries about that. If you're planning to run four-axle diesels and 40 or 50 foot cars you should be just fine with this plan. Anything larger and you might want to take a look at something else. Another potential concern with this layout is that it's fairly intricate. While good track laying is always important to good operation, it's very important for this layout. That double diamond crossing (four 90 degree crossings cut up and arranged) will require special care and attention to work flawlessly. Not saying "don't do it"-- there are a lot of folks over the years who have built this layout, I've seen two of them personally here in the area-- but you will want to take your time and be careful. Oh, and always remember Rule #1: It's your layout. We're here for advice and counsel but not "direction" as to what you "should" do.
Regarding the double crossing I just realized that I need to keep on my toes with two trains running to avoid collisions. Upon looking at this track plan more, if I build it I am thinking more and more that maybe I should go with DCC as it does have a reverse loop and 20 or more blocks. I have never used a layout with a reversing loop but it sounds like a pain in the neck as I like to have trains running all by themselves without constant input from me. So now I am on a mission to learn all I can about DCC (I know almost nothing about it) and to find engines that have DCC already. Regarding depth, the Atlantic Longhaul layout in the same book has a cutout making no part of the layout more than 2' away. Unfortunately for me it too is a 4x8 so I am still deciding on what to do. Regarding 9.75" vs 11" vs 19" curves, I am new to N scale and those numbers don't mean much to me. Relating to HO, 22' curves were great, 15" were not so great for normal passenger cars. I never plan to run passenger or steam on an N scale. The longest type car I can think of that I would run are the car carriers as I see them alot around this part of NYS, mostly parked at sidings, however. Joe
OK, I can help with that since I have both scales. 9 3/4 inch radius in N Scale is the nominal equivalent to 18 inch radius curves in HO. 11 inch is the nominal equivalent to 22 inch in HO. 19 inch radius... well, that's enough for a lot of HO! It's the minimum visible radius on my layout, except in a couple of places where I have to cheat (and I'm not tellin'). I use 11 inch radius in hidden areas with no worries. If you are just starting out (which you are), I think DCC would be an excellent choice for the track plan. You'll need an electronic device called an "Auto Reverser" for the reverse loop. Not difficult at all to deploy. If I can install one, any one can.
I'm in the same boat you are, confined on space and new to N-scale, new to the hobby more than reading magazines too actually. Chose N based on those size restrictions. Also going DCC just because its now a tried and true method of control, not brand new barely tested technology. I'm confined to 7'x4' with a 2' deep trapezoidal cutout in the middle of the front, and 4'x2' extension possible along the one wall at a later time. So far I've found: 1. You can get nice large radius curves out in the open if you can hide the other half which is a smaller radius. (as umtrr-author mentioned) 2. There are auto-reversers with power output that you can hook up to a switch machine/power activated turnout and run a train through a reverse loop on its own without manually flicking any switches yourself. 3. Alot of people have told me since this is my first rodeo, to use Kato Unitrack for reliability and idiot-proofness, lol. Best of luck and we're all here to help.
Hey guys, I found another layout that I may be able to build however it is an HO layout and I don't know how to convert to N. The layout is from the book Track Plans for Sectional Track by Lin Westcott and on page 34 is layout 152. Since the HO curves and straight track are not exacty twice N scale nor the swtiches, where would I start converting HO to N? Short of buying a bunch of N scale track and trying to piece the parts together to form the HO layout, is there any easy way to convert an ambitious plan such as this? Thanks. Joe
Exactly, you will never regret it. Leave the curves the same sizes and your grades are cut in half. That is two for one, easier grades and easier curves!
Don't build a spaghetti bowl - it's going to be costly and a nightmare to maintain. See if you can find a copy of January 2001 Model Railroader at your library. Check the Pennsy Middle Division layout. It was built to fit into a 2.5 ft by 10 ft closet but can probably be adapted / modified or give you some ideas to start with.
