Have I done an all-out sympathy buy at a small store outside my area? Hardly ever. Have I done it at a local store? Yes, I confess I have, but I keep it small. Mostly, I buy local for the same reason I shop at the corner hardware store: because I get good advice and because I'd be inconvenienced if it disappeared. Sometimes you just need a nut, bolt, or a #7 left-handed code 83 switch THAT DAY. I'm also fortunate enough to have a good, solid local shop that offers reasonable discounts for things like pre-ordering Walthers series and such. It makes sense, because that's the kind of buy that doesn't require them to stock inventory. If they weren't a GOOD shop, I'd avoid them. In fact there are local shops I do avoid. When I DO buy from LHS shelf inventory it is often something I would never have bought if I hadn't seen it in person. There I think it seems fair to buy it where I saw it. If I really can't afford it, maybe I'd haunt eBay for it, but I wouldn't shop online to save $5 or $15 when I discovered the "need" in the LHS. Bigger ticket planned purchases are different. For example, if I ask around about DCC, and my LHS recommends system X, and I do decide on X, chances are I'd buy the basic kit for X from them. If I add on to it, I might buy local or online.
I did a sympathy pre-order this past week. My LHS was not going to carry the Intermountain CabForward because (as the owner put it) it was not a proven commodity. Of course, once he told me that I ordered the CabForwards from an online dealer. Last week the owner called me to let me know he got some CabForwards in and remembered I had inquired about them. I was embarrassed to tell him that I had purchased two of them from an online dealer (who BTW was about $30 cheaper anyway). Since Athearn had already announced another run of them... I told him I'd pre-order one from the next batch.
I don't think I do sympathy buys. Our LHS does not carry any American stuff, only Fleischman, Minitrix, Märklin and Bemo. Also no Peco. But they have Woodland Scenics and Evergeen styreen, and glue and lamp posts. I buy those kind of things, because that are the things I need RIGHT NOW and are also not really interesting to buy cheaper on the internet. My Peco track comes from a LHS about 30 minutes from the city where I live. That shop has American stuff, but not a lot of N scale and most items are old. They have however the complete line of Peco tracks in several scales. And a large assortment of scenery materials of Woodland, Busch and Noch. And a 3rd LHS near Schiphol sells a lot of American N scale, but they have rather high prices and they have screwed some orders I did there. So, I stopped being a customer.
The only time that I have ever done it was when a friend, who had recently taken over a store pretty much begged me to buy something. He had taken over this failing store in Virginia from a guy who had alienated numerous customers. He had an undecorated Atlas RS-3, so I bought it. I would not call these sympathy buys, but there was a guy, who became a friend, who owned another store in Virginia. He would give me twenty per cent off list on anything, and sometimes had sales. He treated all of his customers well. Many people took unfair advantage of his trust; he got shafted by more than a few people. If I could get it from him, I would. If there was a problem with anything, he always made it good, no questions asked. Then, there were those who would visit his store to check out a locomotive, then go home and buy it on line. He could not compete with internet prices, so he shut down. He did restart, a few years back, by going to shows. Shows was how he got started in the business. He did reasonably well, at that. Trains were not his main business, anyhow; that was a totally unrelated line of work. Sadly, he recently moved away from the area. I will miss him.
One of our LHS's is also active on exhibitions and fairs. In fact, there are several LHS's who do this. It brings them to a large audience with a lot of potential buyers. But on the internet, they are conservative: their websites are simple, with no possibility to buy or reserve anything. I frequently buy at a British LHS that has a good web shop with American HO and N scale. Their prices are competitive, especially since I do not have to pay import taxes on their stuff. Maybe that will be the only way to survive: become an active shop online!
I used to go into one of my LHS's and buy used magazines for my collection. You know the deal, low price used magazine, cut the article out and put into a folder. I have been involved in retail operations in other fields and I know there is not much profit margin in selling old magazines. While I was there I always tried to buy something else from their stock to keep them in business. Just basic items like paint, glue, styrene, decals etc. After some months I noticed that they would sometimes have second hand N scale equipment for sale. More purchases were made not so much as sympathy buys but something that was useful for my model building projects. I purchased quite a number of items that were stripped, repainted and relettered. The most important thing was that the shop staff are friendly. One day I asked if they could order me two locomotives and 15 Atlas hopper cars. A short wait and they arrived. More surprising was they gave me a discount on the hopper cars! Obviously other people were getting the same good service. Over the years since then the shop has flourished and this small LHS has the best selection of American prototype N scale equipment in Sydney. My attitude is keep yor LHS in business even if you feel that you are making a "symathy buy". Gary
I don’t know why I didn’t see this post before. I do that all the time, I didn’t know that others felt the same way. I don’t really have a LHS that carries anything I need or want, but occasionally I make a long trip out of town to a little hole in the wall place that I really like. The people there are got to be in their 70’s and their prices are high, but they have so much stuff. They also have stuff on consignment to help those who have fallen on hard times, which I think is great. I find myself worrying about them when I’m in the store and I hope they have a plan for someone to continue on with a train store that has been around forever. I hear about places closing their doors every day and it deeply saddens me. I just recently bought a number of items from them and I know that I paid $100 over what I could have in the net.
I love this topic. Living in Ontario, Canada now...am from California, sympathy buys are pretty much the only ones I do. In the near by city there is one all MR store and another regular shop. Well both of them know im an SP fan, but do they order the SP items ie locomotives, cars, books etc? They don't. So i figure, the hell with ya, the internet has everything I need at the prices I want to pay. Thom
The LHS here used to be very haughty before the financial meltdown so, my visits are usually just to browse out of curiosity. Anyway all the LHS carry European makes which do not interest me so I do all my purchases online. Sometimes I do buy, mostly out of necessity like small items from WS. Cheers,
I guess that’s the reason that I feel the way I do about the place I mentioned earlier. Not only are they a piece of history, but they make it a point to know everybody and their needs. I’m lucky to visit once every 3 to 6 months and they not only know my name, but they remember where I live (which is out of town) and they remember what I model. It’s funny that my local place doesn’t know me or even care and a place 60 miles away does. I’ve been going in my LHS for 3 or 4 years. Actually now that I think about it, it’s probably been 10 years, since my son lived at home. I always try to chat with everybody, but it’s just business only with them. If they’re not ringing up the cash register they don’t want to talk to you. I really enjoy going to the place out of town and if I lived closer, I probably would hang out there. Every time I go there, I plan on spending an hour or two browsing through the piles of stuff while chatting with all the great people that are just hanging out there. So I enjoy helping to keep that place in business even if I don’t get there but 5 or 6 times a year and I could care less about my LHS.
I am sure I'm not the only guy this lucky with his LHS's.... I live in Berkeley (yeah the city where everyone hugs trees and smokes trees....) and the local hobby shop is in the basement of Ace Hardware!! Their selection is better than some places, but most of the N scale stuff they have is rolling stock & modern locos. Atlas & Kato make up 90 % of the stock of locos, and the guys who order the rolling stock must have a keen eye for keeping out junk- not a Bachmann or Lifelike rapido-equipped car in sight!! The guys there are knowledgeable enough, and love to shoot the breeze about anything & everything over a cup of their free coffee!! I am a lucky guy. Did I mention, they also have a 20% off EVERYTHING sale about every other month? I'm goin' this afternoon to scope out new cars & the clearance bin.... Then there's Bruce's, up in Sacramento. He's got a great selection of locomotives, and a clearance section with some hard-to-pass-up deals, and Bruce is a really nice guy if you're not annoying him with newb questions Heck, last time I was up there he gave me a killer price on an RS-1 just because I'm a regular! No really, though, I don't feel the need to make sympathy buys or anything because if you're a good customer, a good shop will take care of you- and you know that despite being able to save a few bucks from the online shops, I have missing packages and waiting for shipping etc... and what about test running? I don't mind spending a bit more $ because my shops are there when I need them and I can play with the stuff before I buy it....
I was hoping this post had died. Things must be slow here at TB. I've noticed this is when the staff starts resurrecting decedent posts. To the subject at hand: Sympathy purchases won't keep a hobby shop alive nor will good deals on purchases. If you want for your hobby shop to survive you need to be making purchases at MSRP and in abundance. Don't expect them to sell for less. I might also caution here. Many alleged good deals may be locomotives that have been returned for one reason or the other. They may be damaged or don't run as smooth. Lucky is the buyer who test tracks... such goodies. Yes, I do take advantage of such purchases...from time to time. I do keep in mind what I'm buying and I ask myself, is it worth my time to repair it? Most of the time and a little wisdom exercised leads to a good purchase. Odd, I thought I had already shared this...yep...I did. Just in different words.
Sounds like a couple of cool shops you got there. The best shop I ever went to was my regular shop, Big Boys Toys, in Palmdale California. This was from around 1985 to around 1997. The shop has been bought by others, and I as I hear, is now crap. I think the days of the good old hobby shop are long gone. People just don't seem to care about being friendly, having good stock, and good prices anymore. Thom
That other site had a reply to a LHS thread that I think is a prime muse for this thread as well... Food for thought - these are businesses, afterall, not charities...now I know, it is a hobby - we don't need it and we can bargin down to get what we want. Therein lies the challenge.
Benny...With respect to you and Ed.. Fast movers have a lower margin% than slow movers. High price products have a lower margin% than low price products. Margins can be anywhere between 5% and 250%. Depending on the product. Discounts of 50% or even higher on some merchandise are out there. The retailer then still makes sufficient profit to get back his investment and pay his costs such as staff, rent, storage, breakdowns etc. 50% off the price means that he made AT LEAST MORE than 100% profit. Regardless of the % of discount...The LHS or etailers are still making a decent profit. That profit amount depends more on the Owners attitude and customer service then on a specific piece of merchandise. The Shop OWNER makes or breaks a bussiness...not a customer discount. Short answer...Do I feel bad enough for crappy LHS's or etailers enough to make sympathy purchases? NOT A CHANCE. Will I make a purchase for something I need from a shop that treats me right...YOU BETCHA. JMO .
Benny , I am not sure if you understand that you have a job to make your living and whatever it is you must not need to respond to people who think as you do. My only response is that Robin and I really do this as a service to the folks we love in a hobby we love , but we have other jobs. Most of the people you are speaking of are trying to do as you are and that is make a living. What we retailers owe you is the best deal we can and if that is not sufficient then we lose your business but bear in mind, the hobby continues. Model Railroaders are the best folks on the planet! Sorry I had to post this but could no longer stand the temptation of my free speech. Mike
I learned something when I was working in Mineral exploration - a mine was a good investment if it made a 2:1 profit - but anything under that and the investors start turning around. Now if your retailer [Retail] cannot double his wholesale price, then he's in trouble. If the margins were so great and the profits so wonderful in this hobby, then I do not think we would see this perpetual thinning of the herd that has been in progress since at least the early 90's when I lost my LHS in Prescott. It might have been the same one, but it moved progressivly further up the street and hten it went away forever. I went to Tucson in 2000 and I had roughly 5 shops - of which 1 was really good and another was pretty nice and one was too far away. I now spend my Tucson money at the one that was too far away, because it's the only good one left in Tucson! Further, if you ask any investor or financial advisor about going into business, I've heard there's a general trend amongst the more financially educated to shun such investment ideas. If there was as much money in this hobby as you said, then I'd imagine the thinning would not be happening. People do make these businesses, and that is why we [our hobby, and those int eh retial side] keep on going. Although nowadays between direct sales and ebay, I'm pretty well stocked up... I will agree on one thing, it's a tough road - and a great hobby, if you enjoy doing it!!
In Louisville stop by Scale Reproductions. Great Selection and prices, often matching online prices. They give discounts on special orders and offer our local club members 10% off.
