This is my first layout but I wanted something that would still present a fair challenge. This goes into the corner of my bedroom, so the dimensions are what I have to work with. The lower left section has to be detachable when not running trains to maintain an aisle-way. I have expansion pieces on the hidden part of the loop to provide a way of detaching in the tunnel. Being my first layout, I'm not terribly interested in a lot of switching or operation. I mostly want to watch trains run and get a handle on scenery, and maybe take a crack at scratchbuilding and that sort of thing. I didn't want just an oval though, I have one of those for my Lionel at Christmas, and get bored with it quickly. I have started amassing some of this track already but there is still plenty of time to take any suggestions to improve on this. Also I plan on running 90 ton coal units with consisted Atlas GP38s to make the grades if thats of any concern. The yellow line is the backdrop, not sure what it will be made of yet. something bendable yet self supporting or can be supported by foam. The dark grey area at the top is behind-the-scenes.
Chris: Welcome to Trainboard! Your plan is a figure-8 folded side to side (if it was Gumby instead of an 8, he would bend to his right side so his right ear was on his right ankle). The track configuration is essentially 2 loops around the 4x8 footprint with 2 quarter-loops and a half-loop hidden in the tunnel or behind the backdrop. As your train travels over the loop from the mine to the power plant, it moves left to right to disappear behind the power plant, crosses the front of the layout from right to left, disappears into the tunnel and reappears moving left to right to enter the power plant. You may want to consider a twice-around plan...a figure 8 plan that is folded bottom to top (Gumby would touch his toes to his forehead). The track configuration would be 2 loops with the back half of both loops hidden behind viewblocks. Trains from the mine would cross at 2 inches elevation from the mine at the back left of the layout to the right front, and curve to the back along the right edge of the layout and disappear at about 1 inch elevation as they enter the gray area on the right edge of the layout. The trains would re-appear at 1 inch elevation along the left edge of the layout from behind/beside the mine and travel across the front of the layout descending to 0 inches elevation by the middle of the layout so they could pass under the upper track near the control panel to enter the power plant. Continuous running would be possible because a single track main would pass from the Town area at 0 inches elevation to the right and rise as it curves toward the back of the layout to disappear behind the power plant at about 1 inch elevation. (Note, it would be the same elevation as the upper track which had just descended to 1 inch as it ran along the right side of the layout.) The Main would be hidden as it traveled right to left across the back of the layout rising to 2 inches as it would appear in the upper left of the layout plan from behind the mine. This twice-around plan will have several advantages: 1. You will not need to have any tracks passing under the mine tracks. This will make initial construction much easier. 2. There will be no need to construct and disguise multiple access panels to clean the tracks in tunnels or retrieve cars derailed in the tunnel. 3. If you use viewblocks of low hills, trees, and buildings (instead of tunnels and a backdrop in front of the hidden tracks), you will be able to clean the tracks without having to remove any scenery. 4. With low viewblocks instead of a backdrop in front of the tracks, the tracks will be hidden from a causal viewer but you will be able to see the tracks, if you want to, by leaning forward slightly to see over the viewblock. There is a double track mainline behind this low viewblock: View with the viewblock removed: 5. Train movement from mine to power plant will be always be left to right and empties will always move right to left as they return. 6. By using vertical separation as well as scenery/buildings to separate the tracks, you will not have trains passing back and forth through the same scene multiple times. 7. The total amount of time a train will be visible traveling from mine to power plant will be slightly more with this plan than with the other. Going with the single track main in a twice-around plan will also free up more real estate for scenery or (if the twice roundy-round in N-scale starts to feel like the Christmas oval roundy-round of your Lionel) additional industries needing rail service. 8. You will have the option of connecting the 2 mine tracks with the 2 power plant tracks and setting up a loads eastbound/empties westbound scenario between the mine and power plant. 9. There will be space to add industries or sidings in the farm area, mine area, and town area.
I think I get what you're saying, but I'm definitely a more visual kind of guy. Even a rough Paint of your proposal will help immensely. Thanks for the replies so far everyone. edit: one thing about the powerplant I forgot to mention. It needs a backdrop so I can paint the rest of the complex on it.
I can't follow the plan due to the colors but I do notice there is no yard. One of the reasons for a roundy round is to watch trains run. A yard would provide a variety of trains to run. As always, this is my preference and you may feel differently.
If it's the right side and back that are in the corner of your room, it will be difficult to reach the track behind a backdrop or even the removable view blocks suggested above. I would suggest putting the table legs on casters so that you can pull it away from the wall at need.
Way ahead of ya there. The benchwork and the tv stand underneath are all on wheels with friction lock brakes. And the floor is nice smooth hardwood. I don't really have the room for want of scenery and mainline distance or the rolling stock to necessitate a yard just yet. I've put in a spur for interchange on the lower right mainline as it heads out of town though in the hopes of future expansion after I move. I could create a yard on top of the bookcase there later on though. Is this what you mean ppuinn?
Taking some of this good advice but running with my original plan a bit more I came up with a slightly more involved plan that will allow for some operations and even a bit of a switching puzzle. I still just really like the large passing sidings. Some more info about the layout in progress: I noticed my original dimensions were off my plans and not the measurements of the actual benchwork, so I measured the pieces and adjusted accordingly. It will be built in three sections. I've lettered them A-C. A&B are semi-permanent, meaning they won't be moved until I move out of the house. Section C must be readily detachable to maintain an aisleway when not running trains. The benchwork itself is about 51 inches off the floor, not including the 2" base of extruded foam I'm going to use. 2 of those 51 inches are from the caster wheels. Every leg has a wheel so the entire layout can be moved around enough to get to the backside of it. I'm using Kato Unitrack so I am hoping there won't be any derailments but just incase, I plan to leave most of the large hill hollow, so that trains can be retrieved from the tunnel by ducking under the layout. Being 25, I can do this quite easily still. The layout must be totally free-standing. This isn't my house, therefore I cannot attached the backdrop or anything else to the wall. The backdrop has to be part of the layout itself. I'm hoping that the foam from the hills and the WS Inclines will be enough to hold much of it in place. I can always run 1x2s down into the foam in the hidden area if that is found to be necessary. I don't intend to use tunnels to get through the backdrop, one long tunnel is plenty on what is supposed to be a shortline. I'll definitely be using the trees and hills for a view block trick there. Here is where I'm at so far, you'll notice how the backdrop/hidden areas move between versions. I'm a little worried I won't be able to get to the trains/track along the back edge with the backdrop in place with version 2 though. I want the backdrop to be seamless afterall.
Another update, this one utilizing the super elevated double track I managed to snag at a discount yesterday at Greenberg Train Show. It is in that upper right hand corner and should help considerably in preventing any derailments on that curved grade. Other changes include a 3rd working spur at the mine tipple instead of originally planning on modeling an abandoned one. Also reworked the town spurs so that the powerplant tracks aren't so close to the backdrop. Manged to still maintain my minimum radii on the mainlines, the only 9"Rers are in 15 degree increments. Most curves still have easements as well. All told I'm up to 80ft. of track.
After actually getting the benchwork physically built, I've decided it is in my best interest to ditch the removable section. The layout as it stands now is cumbersome enough to move, I can't imagine how bad it would be with a 3'x1.5' extension hanging off the front. It still needs some tweaking on the new lower end, I may make it longer, but I think I'm on to something with this latest design.
It is hard for me to follow all of the curves and corssings but my thoughts are: You have all of that space for running long trains but no where to make them up or store them, (no yard). The tracks at the mine seem a bit short You have a turnout just before the track is hidden. That will be difficult to manage.
Thanks for the reply Steve. Sorry about the confusion, it is a rather convoluted plan. I should break it up into sections and give the track some color. I have been thinking about a yard. I think my best bet will be a fiddle yard attached to the lower right corner. I have a cabinet there that is approximately 9 inches below the layout's height. If there was a way to have an inbound and separate outbound track off the layout without the mainline using the spur of a turnout I think it would be a great future addition. I see you use Unitrack for the G&G so you know how it fits into the real world. Do you have a suggestion for the mine tracks? I agree they're short as well. I wish I could use Armstrong's empties in/loads out trick but I just don't see how while maintaining the long mainline run from the power plant to the mine. That's the reason for the intersection behind the scenes as well. Are you referring to the turnout near the mine or the one in town before the tunnel? The one near the mine does have me concerned a bit. I'll keep working on it.
Taking suggestions and implementing them is what this is all about. Now please don't mock my yard, I know nothing about yard design. I've been reading Mattun's thread and starting to get the gist of it, but not really, lol. My idea was originally to have two "yards", actually storage tracks. But the more I thought about it, the yards would be right over my workbench, and would allow for two people to operate at the same time. So I'm leaning toward possibly modeling an actual yard in the future (most likely after I move). The idea is that locomotives can use the bottom runaround track to remain either eastbound or westbound without having to back out onto the main. Other than that I'm just copying what I see, lol. Anyway, here is the latest go of it. Feel free to white out and draw in your ideas. Almost forgot to mention, I'm not sure if I should believe Anyrail's slope calculations or not, but it is saying that the yard would be at different heights and that an excessive slope would be required to bring both leads to the same height by the time they leave the layout and reach the yard addition. The runaround curve at the bottom is actually at a 3% grade, like most of the layout.
Well, after some considerable life changes, I've made it back to planning my train layout. College effectively took up my time, money, and I don't have space in my room for much more than my bed and nightstand. However, I'm going home for a month for winter break, excellent time to work on getting some trains running again. This hiatus may have been a blessing in disguise, as I've had time to read a lot, and contemplate the reality of what I want in my first layout. I've come to the realization that: 1. I only have so much room, massive passing tracks are not necessary for a branch line. 2. I only have so much $, and this hobby is expensive if you're not careful. I'm hoping by reducing the amount of store bought items (track, buildings, etc.) and concentrating on scenery (this new plan has a big mountain = less room for town, industry, etc.) I will be able to afford it. My theory is to use as many natural materials for scenery as possible. 3. Implement what I have purchased so far to the best of my ability. (unfortunately I won't know this til I get home and take inventory again) Now for the new plan: My main focus is still hauling coal, and the addition of a second adit and tipple should make the existence of the whole railroad more believable. The tipples will reside in a large dead-end valley, surrounded on three sides by mountains. Once loaded, the coal will be hauled up the side of the valley, where the line crosses over itself and eventually enters the tunnel, headed for parts unknown. Parts unknown being the staging track along the back of the layout. Next, the local mixed freight makes its rounds around town, which includes physical industries (yet to be decided), and the interchange track. It then departs for the staging track as well. Finally, when I get the bug to run it, (on weekends?) the excursion train departs its spur and makes its way around town and up into the mountains, before returning home and backing into the museum's spur track. The plan is still to use the horde of pink foam I've amassed for land forms and WS Risers and Inclines for the Unitrack roadbed. Hopefully I can get my hands on a Scenic Ridge buildings kit cheap for a town buildings source. Cardboard mockups will have to suffice probably for quite a while in the meantime. Comments and concerns are appreciated!
I am far from an expert on layouts and design, and I seem to be having a lot of the same struggles that you do, but I really think that this newest design of yours is a lot more practical for your conditions. You have simplified the design a lot and eliminated the majority of the hard-to-reach hidden tracks. By the looks of it, all of your hidden tracks are around the outside, so, as long as you don't have the layout tight against a wall, you can get at things in case of an accident. My only concerns are things that you have already addressed as concerns to yourself. 1. Your staging/passing track is very short. It looks like it will only fit 5-6 cars. If that is the maximum length of train you want to run for your mixed freight, that is fine I suppose. 2. Your interchange track runs off the board in an odd location. If you ever want to expand the layout coming off of this track, you are going to have to make the layout even deeper, making reach even more difficult. I don't know how to solve that short of moving the town to the right slightly and having the interchange come off the bottom left. To do that you would need to adjust the curves in the dead center going to the mines. Maybe even change the angle of the mines. Those look like fairly tight curves anyhow. Other than that, I think you will have great opportunity for scenery. Some nice jagged cliffs would look great around the mines. Take my concerns as you will. Like I said, I am by no means an expert. I am having a lot of the same struggles you are right now with my own layout design. Cheers,
Unfortunately, the unavoidable truth is that the hidden tracks are along the walls of the room. Fortunately, I took what steps I could to alleviate the problem by putting the entire layout, and the tv stand that resides underneath on rubber casters. Everything wheels out from the wall, albeit in a cumbersome manner, but the tunnel will be accessible. This revision addresses that which you point out and I noticed the additional car length or two but was finally too tired to work on it til this afternoon. Noted and addressed! I like the idea of an eye on future expansion, guess that's what I get for track-planning when I can't sleep. My minimum curve radius for the main in my druthers is 11", seeing as how I hope to someday purchase a Kato SD45 or two and paint them for my road to head the coal train and use my GP38s for the local mixed freight. I would have to test those 6 axles on that radius curve however before purchase I hope. I hope to figure out a way to model sedimentary rocks out of foam in the vicinity of the mines, perhaps a vertical rock face supporting the ascending track as it circumnavigates the valley toward the bridge. The mine adits' conveyors will probably go up onto the mountain above the tracks. Do you have a link to a thread about your layout? I've been trying to catch up on everyone's progress that I remember and am always interested in seeing new stuff. Thanks for the reply Ben! Other druthers and givens: 1. #6 turnouts on the main, 4s only used on spurs and sidings. 2. Since I'm using Risers, tracks cannot be stacked atop one another. I ran into this problem along the right side of the plan trying to use larger radius curves departing the mines. Also since one track is ascending while the other is descending, it wouldn't work regardless of construction method. 3. Season will be autumn, as it is my favorite time of year. However, I am interested at trying my hand with small amounts of snow on the mountain. Is WS Snow a good size for N scale or is it more HO sized? I figure if it can snow here in PA in October when there is still a fair amount of color in the trees, why not? I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking about right now, but its about time I get ready to go take a math final.
Nice, I think you are going to have fun putting this together. I think it has some good potential. You mentioned trying to carve sedimentary rock out of foam. Have you thought about using broken ceiling tiles and stacking them? I haven't actually tried it on a layout, but I did try breaking a couple, and with a bit of clean up and some paint I think it would look fairly good. It is a fairly low budget item too. One 2'x4' tile would make a lot of rock. I think it looks a lot like shale. Here is a link to my thread that I am going to use for updates. I am still in planning stages much like yourself. Right now, I am going with layout Option #3, however I have eliminated the yard in favour of modelling a nice valley and trestle along that side. It may be a pain because I can't store trains on the layout, however I am more about the scenery than filling it up with trains. Hopefully after the holidays, if time and money permits, I will get started on setting up the room and benchwork. http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=126076 I look forward to seeing your layout develop. Cheers,
My own thoughts are based on time. If you only have a month or so to work on it I'd suggest keeping it simple. You might want to consider a hollow core door with a couple layers of foam, (to save construction time). You can then focus on scenery and running trains.
Ceiling tile sounds like a very good thing to check out, perhaps layered with thin foam sheets between to represent sandstone I can create over-hanging layers, very interesting idea! I think I might be able to scrounge up some ceiling tile for free too. Its falling out of the ER portico ceiling at the abandoned hospital in Jeannette, lol. Snagging one piece or two should be easy, as chunks break off and blow around the street all the time. Unless they all fell out and blew away by now... we'll see. The layout framework and base foam is already cut and built Grey One, but I understand your reasoning. I wish I had room for an HCD, but no can do, its why I have the custom shape benchwork. I don't think I have this much Unitrack anyway, but I can atleast get started on cutting foam mountains and installing risers and inclines. By no means do I think I will have an operating model railroad with scenery and everything in less than 30 days. Its just good to know others think that my trackplan is workable, as I realize now how crazy my first ideas were, haha.
Update: Made some significant changes to all aspects of the plan. Increased the slope distance leaving the mine to where I should be able to use 2% grade and get 2in. of height. Gave each mine adit it's own spur off the siding and increased their length by doing so. Also fixed some of the crazy curves in the mine siding/mainline area in the process. Ditched the excursion train spur in favor of longer staging, while moving it left, away from the mine-bridge ascent trackage. Still managed to maintain my 11" radius rule, and even got rid of a 9.8"r on a spur in town.
