How long on reservations?

Traindork Apr 14, 2010

  1. Traindork

    Traindork TrainBoard Member

    1,299
    393
    35
    I got a call today from the LHS that some rolling stock that I had reserved came in.
    It was something I had ordered from one of the major mfgs, one of these "Order by the 15th for delivery in 4 months!" Well, it was something I'd ordered in October 2007! I went and picked up my stuff, but I was a bit put off by the long delay from the mfg.

    I know there's all kinds of problems with China, but somewhere in there we shouldn't be on 'hold' for so long. What if I changed eras? Or what if now I'm collecting yarn, and have left model railroading? How many modelers have moved on, and the hobby shop is left holding the bag? Somewhere in the I think the mfg should have contacted their dealers and reconfirmed what orders had been placed.

    Just ranting, I guess.... :bear-arghh:
     
  2. ram53

    ram53 TrainBoard Member

    293
    26
    24
    Oh yeah, I see I first pre-ordered Deluxe's special run Canadian Tire corrugated containers on March 28,2008, expected Sept 2008. They are now "expected Sept 2010". I think a lot of these companies should reconsider their committment to China as a manufacturer. Bring some jobs back home, I'd pay a little more to actually get what I want within a reasonable time frame.
     
  3. jagged ben

    jagged ben TrainBoard Member

    1,832
    4
    31
    I wholeheartedly agree. If so much of this stuff gets announced and never produced, that more money in our pockets to pay for stuff made here! ;)

    I won't name companies, but I've given up on a lot of stuff I pre-ordered that has turned out to be vaporware...
     
  4. bryan9

    bryan9 TrainBoard Member

    368
    11
    14
    I don't mean to endorse a particular vendor here, but I'd just like to point out that this story is one of my reasons for pretty much confining my N scale business to M.B. woo woo woo (some train store.com).

    It's like the old days. They don't take reservations -- they just order great gobs of stuff.

    What's new is that you can fill out a form asking to be notified when an item you want is available. When you get the email, you visit their site, and you can see exactly how many they have in stock.

    When you get the notification, what you do next is up to you.

    If you no longer want it ("Egad! What was I thinking?") or no longer have the dinero, or you've decided to sell off all your N scale stuff and build a garden railroad, or your spouse is pointing a pistol at you and says, "Order again and you DIE," you don't buy the item, and that's that.

    You haven't violated a contract, come up short on a commitment, sullied your reputation, injured innocent vendors, or threatened the viability of N scale.

    What's not to like about this?

    There's always the chance, I'll concede, that the item will be in such great demand that you'll miss out, especially if you procrastinate and don't visit their site immediately to order. Modelers who MUST have a certain item, beyond all doubt, might well prefer the reservation system. However, I've gotten everything I wanted from M.B. woo woo woo's system. Also, I've notice that, when M.B. woo woo woo anticipates heavy demand for an item, they place limits on how many units of a given road number, say, an individual can purchase. Presumably, this ensures that eBay speculators can't buy out their stock in an item.

    I find it rather surprising that there hasn't been more commentary here on M.B. woo woo woo's innovative business model. The firm has made a major investment in an online, real-time inventory tracking system that, in my opinion, defines the state of the art in model railroad retail marketing. And they've offered modelers an alternative to the reservation system, about which all of us have been complaining for years.


    --Bryan

    DISCLOSURE: I am a (very happy) customer of M.B. woo woo woo, but I have no other financial or personal relationship with the firm.
     
  5. Westfalen

    Westfalen TrainBoard Member

    4,094
    32
    55
    My Rapido Trains UP passenger cars that I ordered back in September 2008 arrived yesterday (worth the wait BTW). I think I read somewhere that their production facility in China consisted of three people, in this case I'm not sure having them made in the US, or Canada, would have gotten them done quicker. Apart from Micro-Trains I don't think much American N scale from major manufacturers has ever been made in the US, Atlas used to be made by various European manufacturers and engines later on by Kato, as were Con-Cor offerings, Model Power and Life Like came from German Minitrix or Czech Mehano, Bachmann has always been made in Hong Kong or China.

    I'm not sure if production and delivery times have gotten longer over the years, or if the problem is manufacturers announcing new models and asking for orders before they even put paper to the drawing board. I don't think it has to do with where it is made, Micro-Trains have similar problems when they break their normal policy and announce things too far in advance like the heavyweights, if they hadn't announced them a year or two ago we wouldn't be as frustrated waiting for them as we are. Back in the days before the internet the first you would hear of a new model would most often be when you went to the hobby shop and they had it in stock.
     
  6. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

    8,903
    3,622
    137
    I would love to get on the "bring jobs home" band wagon. Ok, I am on it but realistically it would likely cost about 40 percent more per car to have it 100 percent American made. Having looked at my layout and realized it can realistically only handle about 5 locomotives and 100 cars - at most - at any one time I have decided I would happily pay that to bring jobs back.

    Significant Disclosure: My job was outsourced. The company is now saving about $25,000 a year.
    This most definitely shades my perspective. How many people would pay 40 percent more to have something 100 percent American made?

    Note: I don't have any numbers to substantiate the "40 percent". Your guesstimate is as valid as mine.
     
  7. Tim Loutzenhiser

    Tim Loutzenhiser TrainBoard Supporter

    1,483
    16
    33
    I don't think bringing jobs back to the U.S. is going to happen - it's just plain and simple that U.S. taxes, EPA restrictions, etc. have made China THE place to do business. Now hopefully this post won't be deleted because of "political" overtones, but I feel this information is relevant to our discussion and to help us understand why our supply of equipment is for the most part coming in from outside of the U.S.

    Many employers in the U.S are feeling the pinch of certain new legislation that was recently passed, and it does mean that more jobs will be outsourced from the U.S. This is happening at Caterpiller, John Deere, and even the large company I work for.
    I sometimes am heard on the local radio programs ranting about the importance of buying American made products. The reality is that it just is getting harder all the time to find American made products, let alone quality American made products. I believe that given the opportunity, the average American worker can out produce, out-think, and make products of quality that cannot be surpassed anywhere on the planet. But then comes in the Harvard Business School Kids with their short-sighted business plans, and then the seemingly unending spiral of following the Japanese mantra of quality programs, which for the most part squelch innovation and creativity. And what drives most companies is the just-in-time, zero-inventory, etc. type plans which just sometimes lead to epic failure.

    There will be an increase of "garage shop" businesses as people find they no longer are employed, but unfortunately the majority of these fail within a short time.

    So what can we do? Well, keep searching for that American made product when you can and buy it. On the other hand, many U.S. businesses are absolutely dependent on foreign manufacture. Don't get me wrong - I am all for the safety on the job that entities such as OHSA have provided, and I want to live in a pollution-free environment. But harsh reality is that too much government regulation, both Federal and State, does have a negative effect on our ability to grow U.S. business and employ American workers.

    And I have to admit that some of my Chinese-made equipment does perform well...

    I have participated in advance reservations before, but only with reputable established businesses that don't charge a dime until your item is shipped. I appreciate getting frequent updates on the progress of reservation items, and prefer to have the option to cancel at any time. I have been disappointed by advance orders never actually making it to production. My overall opinion, though, is that I avoid making advance reservations.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2010
  8. kmcsjr

    kmcsjr TrainBoard Member

    1,702
    60
    32
     
  9. mrlxhelper

    mrlxhelper TrainBoard Member

    343
    29
    10
    At least Micro-Trains delivers in a timely manner. They're one of those Made in my own country companies too! How bout that.
    Kato isn't bad either...anyone seen my "Shipping in March" D&RGW PA's?
     
  10. N&W

    N&W TrainBoard Member

    990
    0
    20
    Well, I'm afraid N scale has never been much of a "made in USA" proposition.

    I can't think of any N scale locomotives that were EVER made in the USA (MTL's FT mechanism is made in China). I've been in N scale since about 1970.

    So there never have been many jobs to "bring back" in the first place.

    Getting back to the delays, I don't think a 3 year delay can be blamed on the Chinese factory. There are many factors that could contribute to delays, including poor management stateside (think PCM).

    Mark
     
  11. Greenlightintermodal

    Greenlightintermodal TrainBoard Member

    197
    5
    13
    How long on reservations? - Sometimes Too Long....

    For the purpose of this discussion: Announced =Product is planned to be manufactured. RELEASED = Product has been made and is released to marketplace.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am not the biggest fan of the Pre-order/reservation system, however it has brought us a larger variety of models - quicker than the 'old ways', IMHO.

    As a Dealer/Retailer, the system requires a lot of work up front, logistically, with no return on time investments for a long period of time. But that is the nature of the beast, at this time. At The N Scale Intermodal Store, we do offer non-binding reservations without a deposit, AND I generally order extras to try to take good care of our customers. It doesn't always work out perfectly, but it is a 'work in progress. I would prefer to only list on site what is in stock today, but to provide the best service and to service as many as possible, we offer the option of reservations - on some items it is a good idea... We have a category for RESERVATION items. When the items are Released to the marketplace, it moves to the New Announcement category - that's how we keep track. Sometimes that tracker guy is late.... [ :) ]

    It is somewhat of a 'juggling act' for all parties; manufacturers, Distributors, Dealers and modelers, to keep track of the status of all the announced items. Unfortunately, events overseas can mess up announced plans by the manufacturer.
    I would prefer announcements be made when a product has a 'reasonable' expectation of being RELEASED within 6 months or less, just my opinion. Announcements of 'Plans to release' in a year or more, are seldom beneficial, since the excitement of the announcement will wear off.....replaced by other, more recent early announcements....There are, of course, exceptions....

    When does/should a magazine/website list a product ? When announced to be produced, or a year later when released to the marketplace ? Or both, or when delayed... you can see that this could be alot of extra work to keep track of.

    ExactRail's method of ANNOUNCE and RELEASE within a week has drawn many opinions, but this much is sure - When they announce a model that we like/want/need that model, we are thrilled to get it while the excitement is still there. And there is no vaporware !

    Anyhow, lots of interesting discussions on this topic (reservations/pre-orders). That's part of the funn, thanks for listening...

    Steven
     
  12. screen48

    screen48 TrainBoard Member

    104
    0
    10
    Job sometimes do stay home but we don't know about it.

    A local large manufacture has purchased facilities in China and Europe. Mainly to buy up the competition. In fact they now make product for the competitors here in the US in those plants.

    This company chooses to keep much of there local plant here to provide jobs to the community that helped them grow. The CEO (a friend) told me they could increase profits by 12 Mil. by just warehousing here at the cost of hundreds of jobs. This family owned business and a non union shop choose to keep jobs here.

    We have had eight manufactures home based in this town sell to outside competitors. Seven are now empty buildings and one is fast becoming a warehouse for it's new owner.
    Thank God for the new Walmart distribution center and it's jobs.
     
  13. Logtrain

    Logtrain TrainBoard Member

    2,035
    19
    37
    I waited over 4 years for my OMI Milwaukee "Little Joe"! But it was well worth the wait.
     
  14. Westfalen

    Westfalen TrainBoard Member

    4,094
    32
    55
    Micro-Trains delivers in a timely manner not because they are made in the USA, but because apart from runner packs (which can be late) they don't announce new items until they are produced and ready to ship to the hobby shops.
     
  15. Fotheringill

    Fotheringill TrainBoard Member

    5,982
    0
    74
    I gave up on pre-ordering (with or without a deposit or commitment to my retail or e-tail distributor) after the first run of the Atlas Shay was delayed. I will take my chances of availabilty of the item without pre-order.
     
  16. screen48

    screen48 TrainBoard Member

    104
    0
    10
    Some but not all e-tailers place there orders on the number of orders they receive. This allows them to keep inventories and investments low.
    If we buy or preorder from those who sponsor Trainboard or other forums we frequent then if we find a problem then that forum can contact that sponsor in our behalf.

    IMHO most businesses do not set out to take your money and run.
    There are many good reasons as posted for a business to stub there toe. If we know in advance that these kind of problems could arise then proceed at your own risk.
     
  17. eric220

    eric220 TrainBoard Member

    338
    11
    18
    I asked this question on another forum, and it opened a whole can of worms about manufacturing, shipping, and everything else that was only peripherally related to the question that was asked.

    I, for one, would love to see a resurrection of the "Made in the USA" campaign. I think that a lot of people would be willing to pay a bit of a premium on smaller items to know that the money stayed in the US. Of course, this would not help our friends in Canada, Europe, Australia, etc.
     
  18. trevor_miller

    trevor_miller TrainBoard Member

    72
    8
    13
    While I too am a major supporter of woo woo woo woo woo woo and agree with you, there have definitely been times when items I've wanted have sold out so fast that I don't manage to get a copy. I've even placed an order for an item which sold out before they could fill my order which was highly annoying.

    Having said this, I consider myself a collector of Blackstone Models HOn3 stock and tend to go out of my way to get items I don't already have, which is why I prefer the reservation system on Caboose Hobbies (caboosehobbies.com) which works exceptionally well. I had my Economy Door box cars before Blackstone mentioned they were shipping on their website and I don't live in the US! Now that's impressive!

    So although I really do appreciate woo woo woo woo woo woo's ability to tell me how many items they have in stock, I sometimes wish they took reservations. If they did I would definitely not have taken my business to Caboose Hobbies.
     
  19. mrlxhelper

    mrlxhelper TrainBoard Member

    343
    29
    10
    If that's what they gotta do...it's still in a timely manner to me:tb-biggrin:
     
  20. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

    13,396
    12,182
    183
    Well this gets me geezing back to the old days when you could only run trains when you floated a kite in a storm with a long copper wire. Dang I use to burn out some motors back then. Anyhow I can remember when the first 70 foot all baggage cars (heavyweights) came out. Dang I could finally stop bashing Bmann combines into baggage cars. Well two years later I finally got my order. I never did get them in the roadname I ordered, seems like they sold out and stayed sold out. I finally contacted the supplier and found out what they had in stock. Have decals, have paint just get a baggage car in my mitts. So I cancelled my original order and reordered 14 of what was in stock. I believe Rock Island. Seems nobody modeled the Rock. So 2 years and 2 weeks later I was happily dumping baggage cars in a jar of stripper and getting ready for a major painting and decaling project. Now I'm waiting and hoping for a three truck Shay.
     

Share This Page