The thought came to me and I figured I'd put it to my fellow Trainboard members. I realize that the Southern Pacific Rail Road is a Fallen Flag; however I'm sure we can most agree that it still remains one of the most popular Railroads to model. So with that being said then why are there so few models produced that represent this Railroad?? I really can't figure what the reasoning might be.:tb-frown:
I will follow up with when something is put out in SP it goes quickly while some roads just lingers and lingers and lingers. So sales can't be it Of course, it maybe because I am out west and the same thing happens in the east with the eastern roads while the SP stuff just lingers and lingers and lingers. ratled
I beg to differ: ....I was going to start listing but then realized it would take multiple pages... A Walthers search for N scale past and present give 825 results. That does not inlcude Athearns loco's and cabooses and items that Walthers has never carried. http://www.walthers.com/exec/search...t&instock=Q&showdisc=Y&split=30&Submit=Search I didn't bother checking HO scale. Just off the top of my head.... Kato GS-4 and Passenger set IM tunnel motors in multiple schemes Athearn bay window cabooses in multiple schemes and versions and the list goes on. Try modeling america's first railroad, B&O. No correct cabooses other than 1 kit. The only accurate production steam loco is the Bachmann 0-6-0 and it still takes some detailing and a tender swap. Diesels aren't too bad with E6-7-8's, H16-44, and GP's available. Anybody modeling SP has no room to complain at all.
yet in N Scale, there is only two desiel to have a So-Pac light package, and that is the SD45-T2 and the SD40-T2....and they were a SP only and almost SP only loco....in fact, all of the T2's were owned by the SP...just not all had the lights.
Skip: You forgot the 0-4-0 Docksider Bachmann did. I've found it in books under B&O. The problem with SP lacking is in the steam era. In HO, I beg to offer thy are well stocked in engines diesel wise. But SP steam tends to be 4449, (notice I didn't say GS4) the AC12, now we ave AC4-6, 4449, (notice I didn't say GS4) and a 4-8-2. That would be about it. I;m not even sure Bachmann did a generic trainset like steam engine for SP. We could use a few more coaches too, but we aren't that bad off. Oh yeah, and there's a model of 4449... (Don't get me wrong, I love 4449 and am glad we have models of her, and now we have a few other GS4s, but she kind of obscured the rest of the SP steam world)
JnJ has SP light packages that can be added to any unit. I've found some Sunrise set ups on occasion on eBay. Just because it isn't RTR doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Because it is not Santa Fe or Union Pacific. I do rather enjoy kit bashing steam locomotives for my Espee stable. And now Wheels of Time is making cars that evolved from the Harriman style. (Cars built to similar designs long after old Harriman was gone and his empire split up.)
I'm with Tad...guess I don't see there being a problem with SP stuff. Not sure of what scale you are in, but I'm guessing it has more to do with the *level* of SP-ness of a certain model, such as the light packages, etc. But there are very few models for ANY railroad that are super specific to that road. I do agree that SP stuff does disappear quick when released. Try finding an SP MP15DC. And there are a few things I'd like, specifically the AC4400's. But, I just don't think it warrants the question, personally.
I am an SP fan and I have some SP models and I don't have the same opinion, but then maybe because SP is so much better represented in RTR offerings than my other chosen roads, which are MILW, SP&S, and PNWR/WPRR. I suppose if I was modeling PRR, UP, ATSF, and SP, I might think SP was poorly represented.
A quick eBay search using "Southern Pacific" resulted in 406 N scale items for sale and 884 HO scale items for sale.
Sunrise has been gone for a decade, finding their parts is like looking for hens teeth, and as for JnJ, I just flipped through the Walthers site and saw no mention of the lights...knowing their track record, unless I see it on the Walthers site, it no longer exists.
Yes, you won't find SP specific light packages on most engines, that shouldn't be surprising, but Athearn had the blue box 40T-2 for how many years? That alone should quiet the issue...at least in HO. If you're talking Steam, well that's a horse of a different color, but then, finding prototype specific steam is always a problem unless you're looking for something ultra-unique (cab forward, Big Boy) or something that's been preserved (4449)
I don't rely on Walthers to track availability on anything anymore. Contact Troy directly and see what he actually has. I ordered SP 5 light sets (344-0232), barrels (344-0226) and rear lights (344-0234) recently and got them pretty quickly.
I'm into both HO & N Scales. And I've found it kind of difficult finding Bay Window Cabeese in N scale for quite sometime and then all of a sudden there was a flood of them, now I'm finding it difficult trying to find Autoracks in HO and good brass Bay Window Cabeese. I finally found the Brass Bay Window and still haven't found good Auto Racks. I guess time and patience works every time, but sure wish it was readily available is that to much to ask for.:tb-err:
Walthers had just flogged some SP autorack about 6 months ago fairly cheap to. I picked up 4 of them, I just have a problem finding DRGW stuff.
Why SP steam is the good kind of steam... I love the SP, especially it's subsidiary to san diego. I wish SP t-class and c-class engines were available RTR in N, but at least there's that bachmann 2-8-0, a harriman steamer that I've kitbashed into both. I, for one, think SP steamers are some of the most elegant and visually-appealing engines on the rails, and they're possibly even "generic" enough to be made RTR and still appeal to modelers of other roads. I don't mean to bag on other steamers, but some just look ungainly & disproportionate, and those with headlight slightly above center on the smokebox front don't look right to me (and Pyle lights below center add to SP steam's good looks.) If USRA models appeal to many steamers, then I think some SP steam would appeal to those wanting a different look. But then again, I am incredibly biased.:tb-rolleyes:
I'm sure more than one modeler who would have liked to model a given prototype, decided to freelance over the frustration of having a lack of models available. Nonetheless, I've seen enough SP products of various eras to know that it can be done fairly well. Modeling the Boston and Maine in the transistion era as I do is a big challenge for any type of steam. No one has produced any kind of non-brass B&M steam aside from the Athearn P4 from the 1960s. It always come down to there is never enough regardless of your road choice. As a case in point, I'm a member of a couple of Santa Fe forums. Despite the fact that there are or have been more SF models (brass or plastic) than other road, you wouldn't know that after reading the wants and wish posts on those lists. Duane Goodman
Good point Duane, there is never enough, and always a situation worse off. And we'll always want more true.:tb-biggrin: Glen
Glen: I'm in HO, and I model both Rio Grande and SP steam, and I will agree that there is a dearth of SP models available (and DEFINITELY Rio Grande). You can't run an SP railroad with just GS's, AC's (4,6 and 12), or MT-4's currenlty available unless right now you go and haunt the 'used brass' collections. I've had to do that to get a representative stable of SP locos, and so far I've been pretty lucky with their running characteristics--few of them have needed the usual 'tweaking' that some brass models need to get them running well. But again, we're talking older brass--from Balboa, Westside or KTM for the 'other' wheel arrangements. Sunset does have a newer and beautifully running C-10 (I believe) 2-8-0, but it's in their 'spartan' series, and still needs some add-on details to look really accurate. However, it's a Swiss Watch as far as running capabilities, and would probably convert to DCC pretty well (can't say for sure, as I'm strictly DC). As far as rolling stock, SP seems to be pretty well represented if you hunt for it, though I think there's WAY too much emphasis on the "Overnight" boxcars--used only in service on one division. And the insistence of Model Power and Athearn in putting out those Harriman 60-foot coaches in "Daylight" colors still strikes me as being rather odd, LOL. MTH has come out with their streamlined "Daylight" passenger cars, with BLI hot on their heels (at least hopefully), but it would be nice to see a GS OTHER than a 4 (4449) being manufactured. A GS-2? That would be nifty. It's kinda/sorta hard to kitbash a steamer into an SP prototype because of the unique dome and sandboxes--they need to be replaced--and as far as I know, SP NEVER had a USRA type on their roster. Luckily, you can have your choice of headlights centered or lower than center (pre or post WWII), or build a styrene box over the tender coal load to represent the fact that except for the New Mexico division, SP only burned oil. Athearn HAS filled the bill with their smooth-running and powerful MT-4--even though right now it's the Pre-War version without the Pyle headlight or the Skyline casing (which they are promising sometime next year), but I'd sure like to see some other manufacturers come out with smaller SP power, ESPECIALLY their beauitiful 4-6-2's. Yah, it's kind of a 'dearth' with SP steam, but look at it this way--try modeling Rio Grande standard guage steam WITHOUT hunting the brass consignment shops. Whew! Tom
