Alright Planning my layout, and when the Amtrak gets in the innercity, I would like it to go underground for a few feet until an underground station. It would have to go about two-three inches underground. Can the engines handle this incline? I have a Bachmann Spectrum HHP-8 It will be pulling two cars
It can handle the incline as long as you keep it to a 2% grade to do the 3". I would presume that would be a long run to get there and keep it to 2%. You might want to think about less than 3" even 2.5" might be easier on the loco/train. Just a thought I'm going to be doing similar in HO here next month. I want to go from a slightly below ground level staging track to an "EL" track above the ground to Coney Island. I'll be watching what your up to as well. Best of luck
Rise/Drop over Run. If your dropping 3 inches. 3/x = .02 where X is the horizontal length of the grade will give you a 2% grade. In this case, you'll need 150 inches of length to drop 3 inches at 2%. Thats 12.5 feet. If this is a dedicated line and will only be one loco + 2 cars, you may be able to push the grade up to 4%. Maybe someone here knows how to set up a test track to test out your train on different grades. Maybe lay some Unitrack on a yardstick and elevate one end incrementally until the train slips. Then go back to the next lower increment and use that as your grade.
I would setup a test track as mark suggested, with only two cars I'm sure you could get away with a steeper grade. Also consider raising ground level when approaching your station, after all there's not too much land out there that's as flat as a 4x8 sheet of plywood.
If you look at Penn Station, or any of the other big-time inner city stations, the track is relatively flat and the City is elevated. It's easier to build the metro area as a higher elevation (even a lift-off) than struggle with grades. You'll see lots of viaducts and bridges spanning the tracks, but the railroad is usually the lowest thing around. The 'concrete canyons' on station approaches are pretty typical.
Rangust's posting reminded me of an idea I once had and may return to: These may be too high for what you have in mind. You can easily adapt them. I envisioned the city built on a 2" thick piece of foam which would be removable for access to the yard below. If it was 2 or 3 tracks you could mount the city on 1" thick foam and support it to either side of the tracks with a couple layers of foam. Um, is that making sense? I could draw a pic of what I have in mind if it would be helpful.
So, If I have lets say an amtrak train on the surface, and its 1/2'' elevated from the ground, and it has to go under to a underground station, how many inches underground do you think would be acceptable?
The clearance needs to just large enough for the tallest car / locomotive that you plan to run under the city. I would add some head space just in case something in the future comes along that is taller. I have a minimum of 2 inches on my bridges. I know you are talking passenger service, but if I recall correctly the tallest cars currently available are the auto racks. Gary
You will need to allow for the height of the pantograph if you're going to run the HHP as though there were catenary. Amtrak runs under the Hudson and East Rivers to and from Penn Station. The Hudson River tunnel is 100' below the river, and there are significant grades involved. I think you could get away with 4% and still be realistic. Note that the Bachmann Amfleet cars have significant drag to them, and if that's what you're planning to use, even a 2% grade may cause some problems. Drag can be reduced, but the cost would be interior lighting which I'd think you would want for underground operation. The Katos should be much better in this respect. In any event a test track and test runs are a good idea.
Here's more what I was talking about, using Philadelphia 30th St. station as the example. I always liked this because it's right beside the river and has an open 'gallery' to the tracks below street level. I've eaten at a restaurant on the other side of the river and it's just a great show. Entrance.... http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=36498&nseq=126 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=326816&nseq=3 Yeah, here's the view I remember! http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=279916&nseq=22 My son was in NYC this summer and his apartment was right over top of the 'hole' leaving Penn Station. When I went to visit him I was just fascinated... more trains than I've ever seen, down in a hole you could only see from about 20 stories up. Look at Google Earth just due west of Penn Station (Madison Sq. Garden). So yeah, this is a cool idea.
This is similar to what I did to create my "underground" station. I did a combination track descent along with a bit of "raising the the ground". Here's a picture of the station (you can see a bit of the "top"), more in the JACALAR thread
Randgust, 30th st station is all too familiar to me and close to my heart. I'm a philadelphia local right on the keystone corridor.
Good. Well, I think what everybody is kinda dancing around here is that our experience in N with grades, Bachmann HHP's, their dragging Amfleet coaches, and life in general is that it's a heck of a lot easier to build the entire 'city' higher above the tracks on some sort of platform/lift-off-level than try to engineer dropping the track down 'under' the city and then back up again. Then throw in catenary just to make things interesting. If you're looking at multiple lower levels like NY Penn Station or 30th St. that doesn't apply, but darn few modelers get into that level of complexity.
Alright, I am about to test the grades. I was thinking about getting a bottle of the stuff advertised on this forum Bullfrog Snot. Just curious, are there any free or cheaper alternatives? Also, if it would be compatible, I wouldn't mind adding a second cheaper locomotive like the Life Like F40PH to the set. Because this is a DC locomotive, would this be compatible? I need a DCC Compatible powerpack. I am a kid and have a very low budget. (Around $35, less is preferred!) Have any suggestions?
grade You can usually run 1 dc loco on a dcc controlled layout. On digitrax I think you set 3 as the loco number and it will drive a dc loco. consist 3 and your dcc loco together and it may work.
Which do you think I should get? Which has the most power? http://www.trainsetsonly.com/page/TSO/PROD/ATH-9997 http://www.trainsetsonly.com/page/TSO/PROD/160-44212 Does voltage matter? Will my DCC Capable train run on DC Layouts?
