How do you attach module legs?

gregamer Apr 5, 2011

  1. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    I've been experimenting with how to attach legs to my modules. I'm looking for a solution that is easy and quick to assemble. On some modules, I'd like to be able to swap out legs, so I can use the modules as either 40" tall oNeTrak modules or 50" tall Free-moN modules. I'd also like it to be sturdy enough to use as a stand-alone module.

    Here is what I've tried and what I think of them. I'd really like to see other methods and hear how they work.

    1. Pocket and Catch

    [​IMG]

    A removable leg is inserted into a pocket and held in position with a cabinet catch.

    1. :thumbs_up: I like this system because the legs are removable.
    2. Requires only minimal hardware. Each catch is $.87 at Lowes.
    1. :thumbs_down: It needs some diagonal bracing, and I haven't figured out how to do that and still have the legs be easily removable.
    2. The legs are not easily interchangeable. Because each peice of wood is unique, you build the pocket around the leg and sometimes getting a different peice of wood to fit into the pocket is impossible. This becomes a problem if you want to swap for longer legs or you break or lose the original leg.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2011
  2. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hinge & Brace

    2. Hinge and Brace

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This system hinges the legs and provides diaganol support using hinged diagonal braces. The legs are connected with a plywood lateral brace at each end. My system used 4 cabinet hinges $5 and two diagonal braces $7.

    Likes

    1. Integrated Legs. It's nice to have the legs as a part of the module, makes them harder to lose.
    2. Pretty darn sturdy when you stand it up.
    Dislikes
    1. The cabinet hinges don't seem to be heavy duty enough. I think they'll fail sooner than I'd like.
    2. Not removable.
    3. Can't come up with a system that will make it easy to change between 40" and 50" module heights.
     
  3. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    Folding Leg Bracket

    Folding Leg Bracket

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I found these at Rockler for $10 pair. The hinge mounts to the underside of the module and the leg to the back of the hinge. These hinges lock in position either open or closed. They are made of steel.

    I've also found these priced at $14.25 for a set of four at Constantines Hardware.

    I haven't installed them yet,but I think I'd still probably need to install them with a diagonal brace.

    Likes
    1. Locking position
    Dislikes
    1. Mounting Position.
    2. Price
    ..
     
  4. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have a couple of other ideas, but I'd like to see what other people have done, I'm still trying to come up with the "Ultimate Solution". Primarily I'd like to be able to switch between 40" and 50" high modules.
     
  5. engineer bill

    engineer bill TrainBoard Supporter

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    How about mounting the legs as a strong 40" set and make up sliders that would pull down at the bottom to extend out to 50". Kinda like crutches.
     
  6. 3DTrains

    3DTrains TrainBoard Supporter

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    How about a pocket made from scrap plywood, with a thumbscrew to lock things in place? The leg can have a wood screw with the head buried to accept the end of the thumbscrew. This is what some of our FreeMoN members have done. (Sorry, but no photos handy.)
     
  7. MRLdave

    MRLdave TrainBoard Member

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    Our NTRAK club uses a version of 3D's idea......the club is split between members who use 2X2's for the legs, and ones who use 3/4 inch electrical conduit for the legs. In either case, the "socket" is square, with a set screw to lock the leg in place. The legs are easy to remove, totally intechangable (within each type) and cheap to build.....all you need is a set screw and threaded insert.
     
  8. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    I did find some an article on Metal Conduit legs on the Northern Virginia N-Trak (Building a Module - Metal Legs) site. Interesting.

    I'm just curios how sturdy a set up like this is in a stand-alone module. One of the module sets from my club uses metal conduit legs (not exactly sure how it's set up, and they are totally wobbly unitl you start clamping other modules to it.
     
  9. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    I also thought about using 12" long threaded rods for feet. I'd thread the rods through U-shaped cabinet leveling brackets. Like these Adjustable Supports at Rockler. I actually bought a dozen similar items recently, but they are metric 8mm and it's real hard to find metric bolts or threaded rods around here.

    Anyways, this would give me the range I need, but not sure how sturdy they would be, plus it seems like it would be real cumbersome to adjust.
     
  10. Specter3

    Specter3 TrainBoard Member

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    pipe

    I tried pvc pipe with a connector glued up in a pocket on the module.

    [​IMG]

    After this pic the connector was sandwiched in a pocket of wood. the connector has to be sanded on the inside for the leg to be inserted easily. Free standing the legs are not sturdy. Clamped in, it is fine. The legs need a cross piece at the bottom like you mentioned in your cabinet catch idea. You can put T pieces in and lightly sand them to make them go together and come apart easier. The pipe guarantees any leg will fit in any pocket.

    The downsides are getting the pipe to adhere to the wood of the module. And getting the metal T nuts that I use for bottom adjustors to adhere to the caps on the pipe.

    It takes more effort to build but that would get less as you got familiar with the process. The operation that takes the longest is the sanding if the inside of the connectors or the outside of the pipe to get the fit right for ease of assembly. It has to pretty exact. Too much and they wont stay in. Too little and they do not go together all the way or rip the connector out on disassembly. But I think it is issues that could be worked out and it gives you the leg interchangeability that you desire.
     
  11. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    Locking Leg Bracket

    or More like Hinge & Brace Take 2

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Folding leg brackets support this module. It also uses a wooden horizontal and steel diagonal brace.

    I decided to try out the Folding Table Brackets from Rockler. As I suspected, the individual legs are quite wobbly, and some extra bracing is definitely needed. I used a wooden horizontal brace at each end and a steel diagonal brace on each side.


    Likes
    1. Fairly sturdy. I'm going to test this module out with my kids and see how sturdy it really is.
    2. Legs are integrated with the module. Makes it hard to lose them.
    Dislikes
    1. Too many locking points. It's kind of a pain having to get the two brackets and one brace on each end unlocked simultaneously.
    2. Too pricey. $27 in hardware. I can probably get this down to about $20, but still way too expensive.
    3. Very difficult to install. Getting the brackets, legs, and braces square and managing clearances for everything is very difficult and time consuming. And the bracket mounting holes are all very close to the edges, I split a lot of wood drilling these in to position.
     
  12. MRLdave

    MRLdave TrainBoard Member

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    The conduit legs....or the 2 X 2 legs can be pretty sturdy if #1 you make the sockets sturdy, and #2 if you make the set screw so it can be tightened good and tight. Those two are not mutually exclusive.....the sockets must be mounted solid if you plan on tightening the set screws up. Otherwise the set screw can actually push the socket off the module as you tighten it. The sturdiness gets even better as you clamp more modules together, but I frequently set up modules individually to work on them and I find the system to be pretty sturdy.....nothing 3 to 4 foot long that's only anchored at one end will ever be "rock solid" without some bracing, but it's as good as any other none braced system. The 2X2's are a little more solid than the conduit. and you can screw eye bolts into the bottom to get some height/leveling adjustment.
     
  13. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    Screw on Leg Assemblies

    I stole this idea from Dave Falkenburg's FREE-MO N presentation. The leg assemblies are built in pairs and attached to the frame using bolts and wing nuts. The trick is that the leg attachments are slotted, so you can just slide them on and off, then tighten a wing nut to secure them.

    I built a Free-moN Frame today to test it out and I like it.

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    Likes
    1. Fast and easy to install/uninstall.
    2. Pretty sturdy.
    Dislikes
    1. Lot's of wood cutting, time consuming to produce.
    Unknown
    1. Presumably this should be very easy to reproduce and mass produce for interchangeability. I didn't really try to make a template for this set up, I just wanted to get it up quickly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2011
  14. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    Adjustable Broom Handles

    This is something I read somewhere and was considering trying, but was cautioned against (I think wisely.)

    [​IMG]

    The idea of having something that can adjust so easily sounded good, but some issues might be flimsiness, reliability of the locking mechanism.

    More about it in this post.

    http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?p=795869#post795869
     
  15. gregamer

    gregamer TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hinge & Brace Take 3

    I still like the idea of folding table legs. I have a lot of trouble installing the brass diagonal braces. My newest idea is with a wooden diagonal brace. This one also uses offset hinges and each leg pair is built as an assembly with a horizontal cross member.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Likes
    • Very Sturdy
    • Legs integral to the module
    • Fairly easy to build. I built a quick jig and made four leg assemblies in an hour.
      [​IMG]
    Dislikes
    • Pricey. Theses hinges are $4.50 each. So one module costs $18 to outfit. Plus two bucks in set screws to secure the diagonal braces.
    • Difficult to install. Lining up the hinges is a pain.
     
  16. retsignalmtr

    retsignalmtr TrainBoard Member

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    I have a couple of HO and N scale modules that have foam tops that cannot support the weight of the modules sitting on the legs. I made legs from 2" X 2" lumber that have cleats that the framework of the module sits on to keep them from poking up through the foam. the legs insert into pockets at the ends of the module and are interchangable with the other modules. The PVC pipe caps at the bottom of the legs are for adjusting the height of the modules.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. johnnny_reb

    johnnny_reb TrainBoard Member

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    I like the idea of using the conduit but I was thinking of using 3/4" schedule 40 (the thicker wall) PVC. The PVC is cheaper then the conduit. Put the PVC in an "H" frame configuration the legs would be stable and at the low cost of PVC pipe & fittings a leg extension could be made for the height change or even a whole nether set of legs can be made.
     
  18. retsignalmtr

    retsignalmtr TrainBoard Member

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    What ever material you use for the legs, there will be some wobble, if used in a stand alone module, unless you glue and screw the legs to the module. PVC pipe has some built in wobble of it's own. And those living in northern zones that get cold will find that PVC pipe gets very brittle when stored in unheated garages and will shatter if it falls as little as 2 feet. 3/4" Electrical metalic tubing (EMT) would be good for legs. It's light and you can use EMT couplings mounted to the module as recepticles for the legs with the setscrews to hold them in place.
     
  19. gdamen

    gdamen TrainBoard Member

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    Within Fremo-Us (European modules) we use the following system.

    These legs are sturdy but also a big lumpy. All sizes are metric.

    [​IMG]

    The legs are an integral part of the module connection. The modules edges stand on the legs.
    [​IMG]
    Gino Damen
    The Netherlands
     
  20. Richard320

    Richard320 TrainBoard Member

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    I bought some and tried them. If you don't push the release far enough and push on the leg, they bend. Easily. Done it. If I did it to my brand new plywood prairie about the third time I folded it up, I imagine it would take even less time for someone else to do it... probably at a show.
     

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