I see that set 5 of the CZ from Kato will include 10-6 Sleeper Silver Pass, but that one was also included in set 4. At present that accounts for 54 (55 if a car other than S.Pass is the correct car) cars of the 77 that made up the CZ fleet. Six DBR Sleepers were added in 1952 (Dove, Quail, Thrush, Gull, Crane, and Swallow) and thus were not original 1949 cars. In addition 4 other cars (Cedar, Crag, Chasm, and Lookout) were also purchased in 1952. That leaves 12 cars to be included in a possible 6th and final set which might possibly include the PRR 10-6 Sleeper S.Rapids. It would be nice for that to happen, but also for the other 1952 purchased cars to be put out in a set so that would account for all CZ cars. What do CZ afficianados think about this? I cannot claim original knowledge for this info. It comes from Carl Zimmerman's excellent book "The Story of the California Zephyr."
Silver Crag was actually produced by Kato as part of the original Burlington corrugated offerings. :thumbs_up:
I thought I saw a repeat... I kept looking at the listing for the new CZ set#5... and thought I saw a repeated name somewhere else... thanks for confirming that. I guess Kato ran out of 10-6's... it would be nice if they would substitute the "Silver Rapids" in set#5 instead of the duplicated "Silver Pass". I doubt Kato will release individual Double Sleepers cars. Not their modus-operandii in N scale passenger car releases. More than likely these will be produced by another company like Centralia Car Shop, Rapido... Walthers. I would like to have the complete set of CZ cars though... and would prefer they all be Kato manufactured... but not a pressing desire.
I just sent an email to Kato, calling the repeat car name to their attention. I'm probably not the first, but if I can help them avoid this obvious error, then it will have been time well spent. I'm guessing that the error is in their ad copy only, and that the actual set will have unique cars. I will encourage others who are potential customers for this set to do the same. No need to inundate them, but let's not let them fall asleep on this either. My guess/hope is that we'll see a corrected listing on their webpage within a week or two. That said, I'm glad to see yet another release. I may or may not buy it (I several of the sets already), but it's reassuring to see that they're being rewarded well in the market by demand for this excellent set. Also of relevance, and not yet mentioned in this thread, is that the Kato Direct Newletter for this indicated that "The classic California Zephyr is making what may be its final return...." Sure, that's about as non-commital as they can be, but for anyone sitting on the fence expecting continuing future releases....well, you can't say that they didn't warn you.
Update: I received a response from Kato. It sounds like this is more than just a mistake on their webpage and that they may or may not be able to change the duplicate car name. Probably not a big deal to most of the potential buyers, but still something to be aware of.
Here is the roster of all CZ-type cars. The CB&Q had some identical Baggage, Diner and 10-6 Sleepers that were used in general service and mostly differed in not having the Road Initials Plate by at the ends of the carside. Cars lettered "Burlington" were used in CZ service and are spaced apart from the CB&Q CZ marked cars in the following list: Charlie Vlk CB&Q Baggage Car #903 Silver Bear CB&Q Baggage Car #904 Silver Buffalo CB&Q Baggage Car #905 Silver Coyote CB&Q Baggage Car #906 Argo CB&Q Baggage Car #907 Olympus CB&Q Baggage Car #908 Silver Treasure D&RGW Baggage Car #1100 Silver Antelope WP Baggage Car #801 Silver Beaver WP Baggage Car #802 Silver Stag CB&Q Vista Dome Car #4721 Silver Saddle CB&Q Vista Dome Car #4722 Silver Stirrup D&RGW Vista Dome Car #1108 Silver Pony WP Vista Dome Car #815 Silver Schooner WP Vista Dome Car #816 Silver Scout WP Vista Dome Car #817 Silver Thistle CB&Q Vista Dome Car (Conductor Space) #4719 Silver Ranch CB&Q Vista Dome Car (Conductor Space) #4720 Silver Rifle D&RGW Vista Dome Car (Conductor Space) #1106 Silver Colt D&RGW Vista Dome Car (Conductor Space) #1107 Silver Mustang WP Vista Dome Car (Conductor Space) #813 Silver Palace WP Vista Dome Car (Conductor Space) #814 Silver Sage CB&Q Vista Dome Ca (Women and Children) #4716 Silver Bridle CB&Q Vista Dome Car (Women and Children) #4717 Silver Lodge CB&Q Vista Dome Car (Women and Children) #4718 Silver Lariat D&RGW Vista Dome Car (Women and Children) #1105 Silver Bronco WP Vista Dome Car (Women and Children) #811 Silver Dollar WP Vista Dome Car (Women and Children) #812 Silver Feather CB&Q Vista Dome Dormitory-Buffet-Lounge Car #250 Silver Club CB&Q Vista Dome Dormitory-Buffet-Lounge Car #251 Silver Lounge CB&Q Vista Dome Dormitory-Buffet-Lounge Car #252 Silver Roundup D&RGW Vista Dome Dormitory-Buffet-Lounge Car #1140 Silver Shop WP Vista Dome Dormitory-Buffet-Lounge Car #831 Silver Chalet WP Vista Dome Dormitory-Buffet-Lounge Car #832 Silver Hostel CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #193 Silver Café CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #194 Silver Diner CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #195 Silver Restaurant CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #196 Silver Salver CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #197 Silver Feast CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #198 Silver Cuisine CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #199 Silver Inn CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #200 Silver Manor CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #201 Silver Chef CB&Q 48-Seat dining Car #202 Silver Tureen D&RGW 48-Seat dining Car #1115 Silver Banquet WP 48-Seat dining Car #841 Silver Plate WP 48-Seat dining Car #842 Silver Platter CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #423 Silver Point CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #424 Silver Shore CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #425 Silver Butte CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #426 Silver Cliff CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #427 Silver Falls CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #428 Silver Valley D&RGW 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #1130 Silver Pass D&RGW 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #1131 Silver Summit D&RGW 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #1132 Silver Gorge D&RGW 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #1133 Silver Creek D&RGW 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #1134 Silver Glacier WP 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #861 Silver Arroyo WP 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #862 Silver Canyon WP 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #863 Silver Mountain WP 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #864 Silver Palisade WP 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #865 Silver Range WP 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #866 Silver Bay WP 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #867 Silver Surf PRR 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #8449 Silver Rapids CB&Q 16 Section Sleeper #400 Silver Maple CB&Q 16 Section Sleeper #401 Silver Larch CB&Q 16 Section Sleeper #402 Silver Cedar D&RGW 16 Section Sleeper #1120 Silver Aspen D&RGW 16 Section Sleeper #1121 Silver Pine WP 16 Section Sleeper #871 Silver Palm WP 16 Section Sleeper #872 Silver Poplar CB&Q 1 Drawing Room, 3 double Bedrooms Vista Dome Buffet Lounge Observation #375 Silver Horizon CB&Q 1 Drawing Room, 3 double Bedrooms Vista Dome Buffet Lounge Observation #376 Silver Penthouse CB&Q 1 Drawing Room, 3 double Bedrooms Vista Dome Buffet Lounge Observation #377 Silver Solarium CB&Q 1 Drawing Room, 3 double Bedrooms Vista Dome Buffet Lounge Observation #378 Silver Lookout D&RGW 1 Drawing Room, 3 double Bedrooms Vista Dome Buffet Lounge Observation #1145 Silver Sky WP 1 Drawing Room, 3 double Bedrooms Vista Dome Buffet Lounge Observation #881 Silver Crescent WP 1 Drawing Room, 3 double Bedrooms Vista Dome Buffet Lounge Observation #882 Silver Planet Lot 9660-112 Pullman Plan 9531 2/51-6/52 (Previous "Budd Corrugated Car" Production) CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #429 Silver Crag CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #430 Silver Chasm CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #431 Silver Dale CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #432 Silver Isle CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #433 Silver Meadow CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #434 Silver Plain CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #435 Silver Prairie CB&Q 10 Roomettes, 6 double Bedrooms Sleeper #436 Silver Slope Pullman Plan 9534 (not in Kato Production) CB&Q 6 Bedroom – 5 Compartment Sleeper #450 Silver Dove CB&Q 6 Bedroom – 5 Compartment Sleeper #451 Silver Quail CB&Q 6 Bedroom – 5 Compartment Sleeper #452 Silver Thrush D&RGW 6 Bedroom – 5 Compartment Sleeper #1135 Silver Gull WP 6 Bedroom – 5 Compartment Sleeper #851 Silver Crane WP 6 Bedroom – 5 Compartment Sleeper #851 Silver Swallow
Thanks for the great info Charlie. It looks like there were nominally six CZ trainsets, so Kato could still do one more if demand warrants.
Nice work, folks. I really like this approach - identify the problem, check with others to confirm that it is indeed an issue, contact the manufacturer early enough to make a difference, obtain desired result. :thumbs_up::thumbs_up::thumbs_up: I have been thinking about getting one of these sets but I really have no reason to do so other than to run it at shows. I like the CB&Q scheme for locomotives, but I have also considered PAs in some silver scheme if they would be at all appropriate.
Its nice to know that the group in Schaumburg does have some pull and I'd say some pretty quick results too! Brian
Absolutely. I even received a second email letting me know that they were able to get this corrected. I call that outstanding customer focus. :thumbs_up::thumbs_up:
What an ounce of kindness can really do! Thanks for the efforts, it is good to see that things can get fixed in a non-confrontational manner.
A question for Charlie. Which would be a closer model for the PRR Silver Rapids, the CZ 10-6 or the 10-6 from the original Budd release? THANKS!
