I wasnt interested in the FT model but I agree with Kev, the distribution seemed limited and im sure models were only sold in 2 packs?, my attraction to z scale was running long trains, I like AZL & MTL idea of the 4 packs I would like to see them sell 6 or 8 packs. I dont know the FT story but mabee a better marketing/distribution approach would have made MTL think twice about investing in the tooling, imagine if the FT models were sold in a 10 packs or even 20 Packs and there was plenty to go around?...I hear lots of other z scalers saying they wanted to run long hopper trains.... FT now has a window to flood the market before MTL start producing them, UFC z style. Mike.
Actually, All of FT's initial releases came in 6 packs (or 3 different 2 packs) and one or two of them came in 12 packs. When the market started slowing down a bit, they started dropping back to 4 or 2 packs depending on the estimated interest in the release. But, even in the beginning, there was as much interest in 2 and 4 packs as there was in 6. It all depended on what people could afford, or how many of a specific hopper that they wanted. That's why they were available as 2, 4 or 6 packs. Dan S.
Actually, FT currently has four body styles. The rib side 2-bay, the offset side 2-bay, the offset side 3-bay and the 3-bay cylindrical hopper. They also have trucks and wheelsets and other cars in developement. Not a bad record over a 6 year period or so. Especially for a self financed one man operation. Dan S.
I dont pretend to know the cost of Mauf, but why are the FT models the same price or more than MTL's and they have staff & mauf premises and FT is just a one man band, surley they could be cheaper? I hope the FT cars in development are modern that seems to be where the market is, the FT hoppers have a limited market the younger modelers coming into Z want modern gear, well thats what I see good luck FT. Mike..
Because MT does their own manufacturing. FT has their moulds made by a tool maker and the manufacturing done by Bowser. Both located in Pennsylvania. FT does the prototype research, final assembly (mounting trucks, etc) and packaging. So, for all intents and purposes, MT gets their manufacturing done at cost and FT pays wholesale. The toolmaking is expensive no matter how you do it. But, after everything is done, and the dealer mark-ups are applied, you get the selling price. And, in actuality, the profit margin is probably less. As far as modern vs. transition era, the modern modelers are far more vocal and more likely to be on line, but there are still a lot of transition era modelers out there. For over 20 years, that's what was out there, and a lot of us are heavily invested in it. Apparently AZL sees a future in it as well, with their upcoming Mikado and heavweight passenger releases, as well as their brass steam, reefer sets and GP7s. Even MT's latest new car releases are transition era or earlier (reefer and hopper). Transition era has a wide appeal. Dan S.
I guess the one thing that can be said for Z scalers as evidenced by this thread is that we are a very passionate group and no matter what side of the fence you wish to dangle your feet, someone is certainly going to take issue with you and tell you to get on your own side. Out of a sense of fair play and the desire to see everyone be successful, let me add that while the opinions here differ with strong emotions, we do all want to see every manufacturer succeed and make valuable contributions to our scale. Competition for the dollar is what drives us in the first place and manufacturers make every effort to provide a product that will be desired by many. We all loathe anyone or any firm caught being under handed, deceitful, crooked and mean spirited, and we wish none of that existed. However in this case I don't think any sort of thing like that is going on here. It is only logical that MTL is doing what they feel they need to, to help with their bottom line. If you are not a manufacturer, then you really have no concept of the issues involved, and the time, expense, and dedication that is necessary to bring any product to market is tremendous. It was stated that the car is being done to add to another product line that is in the works so it certainly makes sense that there is no malicious intent with the production of this car style. We find value in every product out there in our scale and we collectively wish there were more. In this case variety certainly is the spice of our lives and we wish there were many more car body styles now available. I imagine each of us has our 'pet' body style we'd love to see on the market. Admittedly, this car is very similar if not the same as what is already out there, but do you think MTL would go ahead with this project if they did not feel there was a ready market for their product? If the market were already saturated, then it would be foolish to invest time and resources in something that had already saturated the market. Think about it for a moment.......if your family were hungry and so was your neighbor's family, whose kids would you be the most concerned with? Every business in the USA is hungry for more revenue, so I see nothing wrong with MTL doing what they feel is good for their business. After all, isn't this the American way......may the best man win? No one is trying to win here, but merely put more food on the table. It was mentioned earlier that some time back MTL made the decision to quit OEMing their trucks to others, a decision that I personally do not agree with, but hey, I can't change that. Also the comment that MTL was trying to put FT out of business just is not true. No one can hog the pie and MTL certainly knows that. Does every manufacturer wish they had the lion's share?.....you bet, but reality checks prove that dream is just that, a dream. It does us no good to sit here and wonder about this situation and complain about one aspect of it or another, so perhaps our energies would be better spent on saving our dollars for more Z....in whatever fashion you wish to spend it? Wishing us all a successful day.
Maybe I've missed something here, but I don't understand the direction of this thread. So, MTL at some unspecified time in the future, will release in undetermined road markings a 33' hopper that may be similiar to one already produced by Full Throttle. Gee, that's nice get back to me when there's more details, but I think I've already bought all I want from FT. But beyond that, the 33' hopper was built in the tens of thousands, shipped out to a couple dozen railroads, some of which had multiple paint schemes, retired to another couple dozen short lines and all the time hauling loads from coal to sugar beets. It seems to me that there are enough combinations here to produce hundreds of variations and that would keep ALL the rolling stock manufacturers busy and profitable for years to come. Mark
And about MT no longer selling their trucks/couplers to others. That turned out to be a great thing. Now my only wish is that MT would sell their Z scale cars with FT trucks and couplers.
I like that there will be so many similar, yet different hoppers available. Take Northern Pacific Railroad for example. They would purchase a run of say Seventy-Five 55 ton hoppers from ACF to be delivered between date A and B. A few months later they would put in an order for Fifty 55 ton hoppers with Pressed Steel Car Co., to be delivered between dates B and C. Six months later they would order Seventy-Five 55 ton hoppers from Pullman Standard, or Ortner, to be delivered between dates C and D. All cars would be in effect the same, but slightly different, just built to the same specifications. By having several manufacturers make these models, I can get a more realistic mix of 55 ton hoppers, all lettered for Northern Pacific, with different builders logos (thanks to Alps), and that makes my period "Unit Coal" train look much better than today's solid train of 100 perfectly identical Bethgons! There's room for more 55 ton cars in my roster!
I hope MT comes out with a steammer to compete with AZL's mikado!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah now there is some competition I've been waiting for! Make it a no holds barred steam making bloodbath! Every month a new steammer comes out and the other manufacturer tries to outdo the other.
