So I was just wondering, and I thought I would ask the board where are the signals placed? At the¤beginning¤of double track? how about single track? how out from the edge of the track any info will be¤helpful Thanks Jack B
Signals usually are placed around and about what ever the railroad calls a "plant" or "block". Plants are places where track events happen, like switches and crossovers. Blocks are set lengths of trackage between plants. So a railroad may designate a block every few miles...with the idea that no two trains can occupy one block, thus the need for signals to indicate whether you should stop, slow, or go at the entry to each block. (These are thus usually three aspect/color signals.) With a plant (switch) the signals need to go at the approach to the switch heading towards the points (1), and one on each track coming in from the other side (2 and 3). So a switch needs at least three signals. The signal for the track towards the points is usually the most complex/most aspects and targets, as it must show which way the switch is thrown as well as the block indications mentioned above. (So, five aspects....thrown or clear plus the block indications.) Also, signals almost always go on the righthand (engineer's) side. A fantastic book is "Railroad Signaling" by Brian Soloman. Goes into great detail about all kinds of signaling and the different types for different eras/lines. I think there are different conventions for the distance from the track. It is measured from track center. Maybe someone else knows current proto spacing? I have mine at about 8 scale feet out.
Depending on the era and your modeling operation another area for a signal would be at a station, sometimes mounted on the station structure itself. This would serve at least two functions. The first would be for a flag stop to pick-up passengers or express which would be the only reason a passenger train would stop at that station, other than to discharge passengers or express from another point down the line. Otherwise the train would proceed on through nonstop. The other use in the same location would be for freight to stop and pick-up train orders. Also on double track main, where each track is bi-directional, there would be signals on each side controlling each track.
Boy, Jack...somebody could write a book! Prototype signalling ain't simple. Depends on the "Rules" under which your line operates, but if you just want reasonable placement for "scenery", signals are used to protect a) Traffic: "Block" signals show a block of track between signals as "Clear" or occupied, and usually whether the next block ahead is likewise in use or empty...so you know where the train ahead of you is and where/when you may need to stop. - b) Switches: At an "Interlocking" or "Block" Station or a "Control Point" (CP), where trains change tracks or routes or at crossings-at-grade (diamonds) with other tracks, signals stop traffic far enough back to not interfere with other train movements in or beyond the "plant". These "Home" signals can show speed limits and diverging routes, as well as track occupancy. I'm already getting too deep in the subject for most model purposes, but that's the basic stuff for "automatic" signals. There are also signals used with "Manual Block" rules - if your railroad operates that way...and variable rules for single and multiple track, directional or bi-directional tracks...I have large sections in my old Conrail & NS rule books for just the territory on which I was qualified. As to how far from the track - use your NMRA or equivalent clearance gauge, as for any trackside structure (or scenery). Think about your track plan and signals in light of train movement - ask some more question, as they occur, and one of us will prolly give you "WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION"...but hopefully it will help. All the best. Bob C.
I have one working signal on my home layout. I put it on the engineers side ahead of a switch into a yard. It's a double head Atlas G type signal with relays controlling it. I also have working automatic signals on a couple of T-Trak modules I built. Adds a bit of interest for the viewers. Signals are usually about 12 feet from the center of the track, usually on the engineers side, but not always. Most signals are around interlockings to protect the switches and to show the setup route, at passing sidings and anyplace they want to keep following trains from getting too close. They are usually at the entering end of a block. Some blocks though do not have signals and are only there to show occupancy of that block to a dispatcher in a tower. A signal is not only controlled by its own block but by several blocks depending on how far apart it is desired to keep trains separated. If you are thinking of working signals on a layout, consider using current detection sensors to activate them. I use a combination of NCE and Dallee current detection. Just pass the track feeder wire for a block through the detection coil.
Thanks for all the answers now I have an idea as to where to place my signals I just have the non working ones for now, Maybe I will change later, but with the economy as it is now I am lucky to have any train stuff. Thanks again guys Jack B
I usually place signals at a minimum 12' from the edge of the nearest rail, not from guage when im digging in foundations on the big railroad. On the BNSF, we do have spots where some are closer due to space and number of tracks like in the powder river. I did put one in that was 8'6" from the nearest rail which is 10'10 1/4" from guage. Signals are placed at the beginning of a block be it a control point or just an intermediate. Here in kansas on the transcon, ours are roughly 2 or so miles apart. On steeper grades, they could be spread a little further. It all depends on the territory.
This is one thing I've wondered regarding signals, and I guess this is a good topic to ask it in. Say when a single track mainline splits to become a double track main & passing siding, do signals generally face the single main entering the siding, or do they face the double main/siding entering the main? Or is it usually signalled from both directions... Hope my drawing shows what I mean, I would assume it's more like the right drawing, where the main/siding (ie southbound) is (almost) always signaled, and the single main (ie northbound) may not be?
There have to be signals near/at both ends of the passing siding. In both directions if the main is bidirectional. But now, to make trouble, what kind of signal system are you using? One, two, three heads per signal? When you get to multiple heads, the same aspect (appearance) can mean different things on different railroads. As an example, there are quite a few railroads that used or are using two heads. Then certain signal posts typically have a number plate to indicate (usually) that the upper light is for the main route, the lower light is for the diverging route. You may have to work out placement of signals. Just like 1:1 signals are set up to be in the line of sight of an engineer, you want your operating signals to be visible to your operators. Having to lean out and crushing scenery in the process is not a good thing. LEDs are pretty directional. So you might want to slightly turn out signals that are towards the back of the layout. But a "cheat" in bright light may be to have a tree, building, signal control box nearby, something to reflect the signal color(s) or to create a shadow at the signal.
The following page might of some use in leaning about and placing signals: http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/signals/signals.htm
HI, TCR - the short answer is "YES"...if all three tracks entering the remote-control/power switch are used in either direction (always a possibility), signals would be placed on each track facing traffic entering the switch, at the outer limits of the Control Point/Plant/Interlocking (beyond the "clearance point" of any associated tracks...so one facing south, south of the switch, and one facing north on each of the tracks north of the clearance point, the place where tracks are too close for trains to pass each other...signals "protect" remotely controlled power switches from random or "unauthorized" movements. If either track north of the "CP" is a siding, a dwarf (low home) signal may be applied, which will indicate a slow(er) speed movement from that track through the switch/CP limits. Again, perhaps too much info for your purposes, but not really all that's pertinent IRL. A signal for each track facing away from the switch will suffice (for "scenery")...or, if this is a "Hand-thrown" switch, you can place the signal wherever you like - just remember to stop at the switch so your "Brakie" can walk ahead and line it for you. Bob C.
Ok, I think I get what you mean, I went exploring on Google Maps along the CN line, this is what I saw: Northbound trains - 2 tracks to 1 track - 2 signals with two targets per pole Southbound trains - 1 track to 2 tracks - 1 signal with two targets
If you really want to mess things up, run left-handed on a two-track main.... http://www.rrsignals.net/Atsf/Albuquerque/2ndDistrict/Lefthanded.htm Wonderful photography in here, by the way. Last time I was out there I couldn't find a single vintage signal structure.
