N scale invasion on Ho forum

traingeekboy Jan 16, 2012

  1. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    I'm getting tired of seeing responses on the Ho scale section from N scalers saying that N is better. I just got done reading a post by someone who clearly stated what their issues were with their N scale layout and they wanted advice to find out if Ho scale would make these issues go away; the first response never even addressed the questions asked by the OP. All it did was tout the wonders of N scale and slam Ho scale.

    I wrote a long reply and then decided I didn't want to start a flame war and deleted my response. Mostly I didn't want to be rude to the person who responded because I've had some good discussions with that person.

    I've been on this forum for ages. I've have or have had: HO scale, N scale, G scale, lionel O scale, On30. i'm not saying N scale is not as good, but please can people at least read a post about switching scales or what scale is better and provide some useful information that relates to the discussion.

    i suppose those who do Ho scale area minority on this forum, but this IS the HO scale section, so if people could be nice and keep the N is better comments out of here it would be nice.

    Perhaps polite conversation should avoid politics, religion, modeling scale, and of course DCC system.
     
  2. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Actually, there's a thread down the page that devolved into a bit of the same attitude. According to the stats for this website, there are just as many HOers registering. We just aren't as vocal.

    Certainly the n scalers here are vocal about their preference.
     
  3. Mad_Mader

    Mad_Mader TrainBoard Member

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    As an HO scaler who recently switched over to N scale due to space restrictions, I think that people need to look into their scale and others to see why the people using the different scales are doing so. I personally like HO scale because it is still small but its easier to build structures, scenery, and detail everything due to the size. The issue that I have ran into with N scale is how insanely small everything is. I had to switch scales due to smaller living conditions due to moving ( again ). 4 kids, a wife and 2 dogs doesnt leave alot of room in my new house ( sadly ). The biggest benefit of N scale that I have seen, is the ability to fit a layout into a smaller area. I do not really have anything bad to say about HO, I have been modeling it since I was 16, and the new swap to N scale leaves me with a few peeves, but its bound to happen when you switch scales. I say in a few months or so I will have N scale down and will be just as happy with it as I am/was with HO scale. People need to do their homework before running their mouths about scales, I personally love HO and N scale is growing on me. I hope that people can just learn to love all scales, because no matter the scale we all enjoy the "SAME" hobby, and can all benefit from each other no matter the scale we use.
     
  4. hoyden

    hoyden TrainBoard Supporter

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    When I got back into model railroading 6 years ago I switched from HO to N scale, mainly due to space limitations, and because I saw that N scale had made huge progress in the last 20 years. Many aspects I like about HO are now available with N. N scale is better for me, and I am glad to make the switch and be back in the hobby. I would have preferred to stay with HO because N scale stuff, for me, is harder to work on. I looked at Z scale but decided N scale had much more to offer for the things I wanted to do; sort of like the tradeoff I made when I switched from HO to N. I cannot imagine how anyone can make the claim that a particular scale is better than another, for another person. Now I will go back to mostly ignoring this topic.
     
  5. JNXT 7707

    JNXT 7707 TrainBoard Member

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    N vs. HO. One of my other big interests is automobiles, and I always equate the scale question to "which oil is better for your car" or maybe closer, "Ford vs. Chevy." Each topic inevitably evolves into heated posts from posters who KNOW THEY ARE RIGHT :tb-wink:
    Which may be why it's a good thing that there are separate forums here, for both N and HO scales.
    Each scale has its good points and bad. It's just a shame sometimes that we seem to feel we have to "convert" others to our scale religion.
    Personally I love HO. I think its the best overall scale. I do hate that I have to deal with its space limitations vs. N scale. But at the same time I marvel at the layouts I have seen in N scale, or Z....or S, and O...
    Can't we all just get along?
     
  6. Jim Wiggin

    Jim Wiggin Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I got started in HO then went to N for limitations in space. I'll start by saying I love N. I can, like HO, detail and paint my locomotives and rolling stock till my hearts content. I will however never get rid of some of my HO stuff. I'm modeling N now because I can model what I want to in the space I have. I plan on someday going back to HO or even two rail O. My eyes are not going to get any better with age.

    I have never understood the "My dog is better than your dog" mentality people have, wether it be cars, computers or scale of trains. A true modeler appreciates the modeling​ performed by others no matter what the scale.
     
  7. Mike VE2TRV

    Mike VE2TRV TrainBoard Member

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    I was introduced to HO as a kid, and I'm still in HO. I make do with what space I have. If there are people in N scale, they have their reasons. If they want to voice their preferences in the HO forums, that's fine with me. As long as no one starts a flame war...

    "We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them in the tunnels. We shall fight them in the yards and on the mainlines... ...this was HO's finest hour..." ;):D
     
  8. Dave Jones

    Dave Jones TrainBoard Supporter

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    I had the same reaction as Traingeekboy and hopefully replied in a somewhat more balanced manner.

    My last N gauge layout was more than 30 years ago and though I think I built a good one by standards of those days, it was fussier than anything I'd ever done in HO. And, since I started scale railroading in HO - guess the love of same never left me. Also even then, in my late 20's/early 30's realized that my eyesight was not likely to improve.

    Believe that this era, like the 1930's are going to be really rough sledding economically and like HO/OO displacing O and Standard gauge, believe smaller will become the norm. Certainly the technology is taking us there rapidly.
     
  9. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    When someone starts a topic, and asks an 'either/or, which one, pros and cons type question', expect input. The exact same happens when these are posted in the N Forum, there is so-called 'HO invasion' every time. It's a topic which has a real history and folks can be passionate. You are not simply not going to prevent opinion- Which some are not as graceful at presenting as others. So it goes amongst the vast mix of folks in this hobby.

    Boxcab E50
    TrainBoard Administrator
    Experienced modeler in several scales
     
  10. Metro Red Line

    Metro Red Line TrainBoard Member

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    I'm one of those Born-Again Model Railroaders who saw the light and chose N as their personal scale and left the heathen world of HO (joking, okay!)

    But seriously, though I enjoyed HO since I was a kid, I felt a sense of frustration, not towards HO scalers, but the HO scale manufacturers. In 1988 I built a 4x12 layout, the first built all by myself, but soon after I discovered it was woefully inadequate for what I wanted to do (modern era operations). Why? Because it had 18" radius curves. NO ONE TOLD ME they were no good for the long Superliners, 89' TOFC flats and autoracks I wanted to run! I just saw Atlas 18" curved track in the stores and thought nothing of it. Hardly any products let you know what minimum curve radius is required, at least not before you buy it. And I didn't have the space for the 36"+ radius curves that were ideal. I was so frustrated, my layout just gathered dust for over 10 years. Then one day I decided to tear it all down, sell as much of it as I could and start anew in N scale.

    N is small, but after not handling HO trains for a long time, I adapted to it. Now HO feels like O scale to me. That frustration was gone, and I could enjoy model railroading once again. Not trying to brag here, just sharing my honest feelings. I guess it's VERY similar how Mac users like to put down PCs and people who use PCs, because they felt free from all the frustrations they used to have when they used a PC. The fact that the quality of N scale is roughly equal to HO scale now only raises our fervor -- no need to defend ourselves and vainly justify Rapidos, Code 80/wide tie spacing and pizza cutters. We just feel a need to vent their feelings out, that's all (I own a Mac myself, bought it for different reasons, so I'm not that way...I still use a PC -- in fact I'm typing on it right now).
     
  11. Alan C.

    Alan C. TrainBoard Member

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    BIG WHEELS!!!!!! LITTLE WHEELS!!!!!! --------SO WHAT!!!!!!----- When your layout goes down or your having trouble with it (GAGE) is the last thing on your mind. You just want someone to help solving/fixing the problems. This is why Trainboard was started. As for me I'm just going to go back to help people fix there layouts no matter what size wheels they have and leave the politics behind. Isn't this really what it is really all about.
     
  12. brakie

    brakie TrainBoard Member

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    Geeky,I model HO and N and will tell you up front both scales has pros and cons and both are just about equal when it comes down to the wire-running trains.I can switch cars in N as easily as I can in HO.

    Here's the trap..I have room for a 15" x10' ISL HO I can detail tell the cows come home with limited operation or N Scale will give me more operation with lots of general industrial detailing.

    Sound? DCC? Not interested on such a small one horse switching layout and to be honest I can only stand hearing sound for about 30 or 40 minutes even with a low volume setting.
     
  13. Seated Viper

    Seated Viper TrainBoard Member

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    I have a foot in both camps, as some of you know already, with N scale railway and OO/HO scale tramway. I know of people who have - largely because of their eyesight - gone from N up a scale or two. I run N because of the amount I can get in a given space. I run OO/HO because most UK outline tram stuff is to that scale. I gaze in wonder when I consider the amazing eyesight those brave souls with Z or T must have! I was in a model shop in Arundel a few weeks ago; somebody was having trouble with a T scale device he'd been given for Christmas. The shop assistant could barely see the beast, let alone solve the problem!

    Regards,

    Pete Davies
     
  14. katmaan100

    katmaan100 TrainBoard Member

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    My opinion ( for what it is worth) is that if the N-scalers are looking at the HO forum, then good for all. I believe that modelling is modelling no matter the scale. The ONLY difference is size and / or price. That is up to you what you want to spend. Go price a G scale 4-8-4 and we all will agree that we can all get along.
    I lurk in the N scale to see the modelling talents and what they can do with their space restrictions. NUFF SAID.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  15. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    Some good points, it used to happen in the N scale section as well. So my main point was pretty simple; can we try to address the issues being presented by the OP. That's it. I might add, the Ho folks should resist the urge to promote their scale in N scale land as well.

    In my example thread the Op wanted to know if going to a larger scale would help with electrical continuity problems. if someone hasn't done both N and Ho scale how can they offer a reasonable assessment of the pro and con? So when I see replies slamming Ho scale for reasons that have nothing to do with the question presented, I get a little hot under the collar.
     
  16. Candy_Streeter

    Candy_Streeter TrainBoard Member

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    I love a well thought out scene and I have seen good ones in both N & HO. I just enjoy the hobby that's all.
     
  17. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    It seems that anywhere you go on the internet, you have to have a thick hide. You just have to accept that there will always be folks who have questionable netiquette, are careless, trolling to stir things up or are just downright mean. Whether they blunder and have no idea that their statements will be taken the wrong way or they deliberately try to stir things up, the result is usually the same. It keeps us moderators busy for sure.
     
  18. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    I was in HO for most of the first 22 years of my life. Went back and forth between HO and N for the last 15 of those 22 and then--after being out of the hobby for about 6 years--went whole hog into n-scale. But I am still one of the few, it seems, that gets value out of HO articles in the magazines and discussions online. (I am actually writing an article to that effect right now) The way I see it, if you can achieve the level of detail in ANY HO article using n-scale, you have a very nice model. Sometimes it's impossible to do that but regardless it definitely gives you something to shoot for. I've even purchased HO models to help with scratchbuilding one in N...it's kinda like having a prototype freight car in your backyard....and surely the level of detail on even an average HO model will be sufficient for N....or at least get you close enough that you can use photos for the rest.

    I think the reason n-scalers are so vocal is two-fold. One, it seems n-scalers were "early adopters" with regards to the Internet forums...they were VERY heavy N early on especially. Even now it is still that way to some extent. So...numbers! Secondly, the market for N has been (or at least, had been up until about 2-3 years ago) gaining market on HO and as that grew the number of products grew and momentum was to the point that manufacturers were really starting to listen and increase their n-scale releases. (i.e. Athearn jumping in, etc.) So it's key that the market gains continue so that n-scale can grow. That generates passion with proud n-scalers who really want to see that momentum continue...even though it has now faded and isn't looking promising. Often there still is a lot of misinformation from the likes of the NMRA and others who still look down their noses as N, consider them "toys", and basically still believe they are poor performing, grossly-out-of-scale "niche" models. That is where the passion approaches overzealous and things get out of hand.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with having a little pride in your scale. There should be no reason for it to get out of hand though. I do believe that there are a lot of folks that just want to play the victim and tend to overreact to everything...so it's not really an n-scaler being over-the-top, but rather an HO-scaler with thin skin. So in short, I doubt it's something to be seriously worked-up about, but definitely a valid point.
     
  19. brakie

    brakie TrainBoard Member

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    Geeky,I'll tell you something up front..

    IF I had the space I would sell my HO and N Scale and go O Scale 2 rail..

    I don't want much just a ISL(I figure around 16' would work),a RS1 or GP9 and oh,around 50 cars so I could rotate the cars so I won't be looking at the same cars.

    Hey,I can dream right?
     
  20. HOexplorer

    HOexplorer TrainBoard Supporter

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    I just wish you N scalers would stop picking on us! Jim:cry:
     

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