I have spent about 8 hrs today reading and trying to get a full understanding of block detection using digitrax BDL16. I feel there is a lot of testing and trial and error. There is a lot of information to be desired in everything Digitrax DCC. I have the The Big Book of DCC which is helpful but really seems to just scratch the surface. I found the digitrax tech support page, haven’t read much on their yet. I don’t know where to start with the questions, any help and insight i can get. Do turnouts need to be gaped on every side or are the points ive marked in red not needed? Would this be correctly gaped for signals? I have 4 reversing sections that i want detection on. The BDL16 using one full 4 block section to do this. Is there a better alternative? I found team digital DBD22 will that work on 2 reversing sections? I have so many more questions, the possibilies seem endless as does the cash one could spend on makeing them reality.
Apperently i have stumped everyone? congrats to digitrax on makeing products that the average modelers cant figgure out without an enginering degree? ive found many examples of how to wire, but no answers for a reason why. expecialy in the whole transponding area. digitax shows one example wired two ways,(here http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/bdl16rx4pm42appnote.pdf in section 2) no real baseline why. Seems silly to spend 100's of dollars on what i think would be a few frustrating test sessions to make everything work as it should. sorry for the bit of a rant but i have a book with 170 pages and few reasons for why things are done the way they are. I know im jumping around alot ANYWAYS....... heres my next big question. this is all realitive to the information on digitrax BDl16 manual There is "common rail" and "direct home" wireing. I understand that the main difference is boosters conneted togather or in seperate (double gaped) districts. The information I lack is A. What is haveing one booster/district considered? A1. What method of wireing is used? B. What if i connect 2 BDL16? B1. can i even do that or do i need a district for each bdl? Maybe im trying to read between the lines on all of this and makeing it more complicated then it really is.
There are so many options, and your questions were, in reality, a bit general, except for your drawing. The first response back is really "what are you trying to accomplish?" Once we know that, we can provide better direction. Also, what system do you currently have, and is everything working correctly. As you have it drawn, it is as if you want to know if a switch is occupied, independent of the tracks leading up to it. That is the only reason to isolate-gap the legs of the turnouts. I run all my block detection off one unit, my Zephyr. I don't need additional power boosters. The real key to block detection is to understand that "one rail comes direct from the command station/booster (or circuit protector); the other rail, for each block, comes from the detector(s). With the TeamDigital, you physically put a wire through the detector, while the BD16, the feed comes in from command station / booster, and then has separate outputs per block. Unless you need more power, use the simple approach. The BD16s will automatically send detection events out on Loconet. With the TeamDigital, you need to put the output of the detector into something like their SRC16 to send events to the Loconet. Yes, you can have as many detectors and cards as necessary for your layout.
Patience my friend. This isn't facetwit. It can be a day or two before you get a reply, especially with something quite technical. Eg. some may see your question quite soon but not have time to answer it until a later date.
"The real key to block detection is to understand that "one rail comes direct from the command station/booster (or circuit protector); the other rail, for each block, comes from the detector(s). " "if you want to know if a switch is occupied, independent of the tracks leading up to it. That is the only reason to isolate-gap the legs of the turnouts." That helps my understanding of how and why to breaking down a section of track greatly. If only digitrax could be so strightfoward in their littiture. (i understand theirs variables in their someplace) I havent got any main track down yet, just trying to get the planing and gaps correct. and i suppose the knowlage of what i CAN do, what my options may be, and to be ready for future expansions like transponding and automation. Automation seems cool its sounds like a cool idea, but its almost LOL, why do i need that? However, I will be useing code 55 track ME and atlas. Atlas turnouts and tortious. My hidding stageing tracks done. All are code 80 with about 12 atlas snap switchs. I am planing on useing team digital smd84, "open to any ideas " Currently i am runing DC though i will be useing Digitrax DB100 with a DT200 Controler. my goal is first off to have siginal control/turnout protection. (am i correct in thinking, that they are one in the same?) I figgure to if im doing it, i may as well plan on going all out so i would like to have the correct set up to have future transponding and automated control. Their dont seem to be alot more to it once its understood. please correct me if i am wrong.
Preplanning your detection blocks is good. Wish I had done so. Just decide how/what you want to detect. Switch position is not determined by block detection (the smd84) will report those to LocoNet. So, figure out how where and why you want signals, and what areas you want the signals controlling. Examples of blocks including switches: I have one block that is a "Y", including the switch and all three legs; another is back to back switches (with a small grade crossing between); and a third includes a double crossover! In all cases, there is a reason for counting the area as a unit detection area. As long as your track and switches work with DCC, then so will block detection. Just remember that each block will require its own unique bus line to the track feeders for one rail. and, not all sections of track require detection. If you want block detection on a reversing loop, put the detector between your AR module and the track. The other thing about using block detection.... You will need resistor wheel sets, or lighted cars from track power.
It really depends on how you want to track trains. If all three routes of turnout have a signal, then only the detection rail needs to be gapped at all three routes. This way the signal can drop to red as soon as the train leaves preceding block and enters the turnout to the next block. It also provides an indication so software like JMRI or Railroad & Co that a turnout is occupied and to not through the switch if clicked to do so. The Common Rail from the booster doesn't need to be gapped also. Only the detection rail from the BDL board. Your blocking to me is good on your image. The only thing I'd do different it block 8. I'd make the track between the turnouts block 8, then make the turnouts there own individual blocks. I've got my layout blocked similiarly using two BDL168 boards. 100-X and 200-x are the block circuit ID numbers. Industry sidings are gapped and but powered off regular Rail A & B from the booster as no dectection is needed there.
Thanks for your help and reasurance. Im glad that I am in the same ball park. Refering to block 8 in my drawing. The sideing their will only be about 10 inches for helper locomotives. I dont know why i dident think of this sooner and point out the fact im modeling the orin line, this is the actual photo of what im trying to model with siginals. its the mine lead to the north antelope mine. one more thing i am still unclear upon. in an example on digitrax web site. They use transponding and automated control. they have cut gaps for detection before and after each turnout section. i used the yard and marked in red the locations they added extra detection. what are the reasons for the extra sections?
On my pic, those diagonal lines actually represent gaps. So each yard track is block, and then the entire yard ladder on each side is a block. This gives me indication of train being anywhere in the ladder with just a single detection circuit.
yes sir, i understood what you where saying their =) In digitrax tho they had extra gaps cut at the points i marked in red. so that between the yard ladders their would be 3 detection zones and a extra zone each side of the yard on the mainline. im i correct in thinking that this is for automated control ware the extra gaps would be the stop zone for the automation?
Just curious but what manual and page # are seeing this on? Not sure why you'd need an extra block right before a turnout. I know some turnout automators like a wabbit use something like that but that's for automatically throwing a turnout.
http://www.digitrax.com/ftp/bdl16rx4pm42appnote.pdf page 13 and 14 have 2 examples from what i gather the block is their for automation for an automatic stop if the line or turnout ahead is occipuied.
I would use a pm42 for the 4 reversing sections and would make the turnouts a separate block each (If a loco sets on the turnout it would disappear and you have block protection on either side this could be a problem when you upgrade) I would then use the remaining sections of the bdl16 for the turnouts sidings and mainline between Turnouts. The PM42 is also 4xx circuit breaker or a combination of R-Loop. If you wire the turnouts separate this also helps trouble shoot the layout in the event of a short as most of the problems occur at the turnouts anyway.
thanks alan, i do plan on haveing detection in the turnout blocks. My bigest problem right now is the detection of a reversing loop. I dont want to have to use one of the 4 zones of a bdl-16 on each of my reversing sections that will only need one block. I have come up with this in my head. Lets say I have a normal reversing loop with the Double gaps at each end. could I cut another double gap, say about 15"( section ) from either the enterence or exit of the loop. wire a standard detection block to that 15" section. Wire the ar-1 just like digitrax says to, from the track (the 15'" section) being that the ar-1 is geting its power from the 15" section (thats connected to the block detector). Will the block detector show the whole loop as occipuied or will it still only detect the 15" section?
Digitrax's also makes a BD4 (4-Blocks) and maby a single; Check other manufactures---- Go ahead a wire the detector to the 15" section and then configure the AR1 as per instructions past the 15" section---lets see if I got it ----Turnout,---Rail gap-----15" section with block detection---Rail Gap---reverse loop with ar 1 back to same turnout----Rail gap----Turnout.... This should work
If you posted a full track plan it might make it a whole lot easier to plot your blocks out. I've had reversing loops in the past but I've only ever had to isolate the loop at two points, each leg of the turnout. Soon as the train enters the loop the reverse flip the polarity accordingly. <shrug>
one thing you can do is go to the railroad and company website and go to the form and again to hardware section , they have a lot of articles on detection
