Yesterday while having a light lunch and perusing a toy catalogue for Xmas ideas for the grandkids I came across some mini vehicles that were solar powered. Light went on in brain, sparks shot through hair, and then I got up doused the fire with water and opened the back door to let out the smoke, lest the detectors went off. Now calmed back down my first thought went to layout power, namely locomotives. Then reality set in as to how do you control the locos. Then the thoughts turned to layout lighting. A small quick search turned up some cells that are small enough to fit on building roofs at not more than 2 inches wide and putting out 6 volts. Probably enough to power interior lighting and signs without having to be connected to a power pack. Hmm could save a lot of wiring on a layout. Noting that the article I was looking at featured a solar charging station and the mini cars contained a storage battery answers the question of what happens when the lights are dimmed for a simulated night operating session. And sitting here typing this I noticed that the cell in the small calculator on my desk is not more than 1 inch long by about a quarter inch wide. Now not being an electrical guru I wonder if these small cells could be wired together to give increased voltage? Certainly would solve a lot of wiring issues. Go down into the basement and turn on the lights and the layout comes to life. Later on dim the lights for a simulated evening ops and the signs and buildings stay lit. Thought though still is linering about a solar paneled boxcar powering a small locomotive motor and lighting. Operating mill water wheels.....oops time to douse the head again and vent the room from the smoke. Wondering if there are any actual applications out there in the modeling world using something like this?
People have problems, in general, about scale. 5 Amps for DCC is a lot of power compared to milliamps to run a calculator. If you add in the loss from the lights overhead, the need for a battery to keep your trains running if you were to turn off to overheads, the environmental damage that was done to the oceans making the solar cells in the first place (massive), then it's probably a good idea just to plug in the old transformer and turn it off when you are done to save on the parasitic drain. Then again, I heard you can get loans from the government for a solar panel factory on your layout. Even 1/160th of a half billion dollars is a big number!
You know John ... I think the smoke drifted over here, my wifes solar garden lights have solar collectors, 1.5 volt LED's and photovoltac to turn everything on at night after being charged by the sun during the day .... she has several ( make that MANY ) and some that have stoped working and wants me to fix them .... uh no. either the rechargeable battery gave it up or the electronics in side went away. I got to thinking that one of these lights only cost $2.50 . some of them have good size collectors 3" x 3" and some only1.5 x 1.5 inches, with the larger ones feeding up to 4 lights. Course the larger ones are upwards of 12$ or more.So I salvaged the LEDs, tested the batteries and those batteries that were bad ,I kept the guts to build some sort of " solar panel to power the lite in a building " but it's hard to disguise a modern power source in a 1940's pike . Anyway ideas are welcome.
An interesting idea, but you may be headed down the wrong path. The solar cell in the calculator works fine for the calculator because they are using CMOS technology and require no real amount of current to operate. We are talking in the microAmps there. It is a lot easier to create voltage than amperage. This is why all solar systems store the generated power in battery banks. Second for the best 'solar' response, the light frequency is important for efficient conversion. And it is not only the frequency, it is also the intensity of the light. Remember that most people talk about operating in sunlight. But remember that light is intense enough for sun burns. It is the intensity of the light that translates to the power generated. Now I am not saying that your idea does not have any merit, the ability to operate within your lighting system for your layout may work if the light frequency and intensity were there, or if you had many of these little panels charging a battery, that could then run your interior lighting. My worry here for you would be about costs. Can you find the right solar cell for your light type, and how many do you need to generate 6 volts and say 200mAmps of current. And you would also want to look at the storage/charging device too. One idea I have been toying with is a long strip of high output LED's, and suspending a strip of solar devices directly below the LEDs. This give the cells the best power conversion, and if you do it right, also can setup indirect lighting on the layout. I am still working through the challenges of this idea myself. But keep thinking about things like this, it is how things change when people think a bit differently about a solution to a problem. And for PaperKite - Go Navy! Beat Army!
You're all over thinking the whole thing..You're railroad runs on twelve volts.Instead of solar LED's,hundreds of batteries,hundreds of solar cells,just rip the transformer out of your powerpack,hook it up to a cheap twelve volt car battery,hook a decent size solar panel to the battery,done..Unless you have DCC,since you need AC,you're finished before you start,unless you use an AC converter..
A lot to be gained throwing it out here on the board to be hashed over and disected from many different angles. I used the calculator as an example for photo cell area size not intending to rush out and buy up some cheap calculators for supplies. However the technology appears quite reliable in small scale. I have a number of calculators that are going on 10-15 years with out a bit of sign of failure. Of course you have to factor in that they for the most part have been in a controlled environment and not outside, although I have one that was carried in the field in all weather conditions and continues to tick on reliabably. Screw in LED light bulbs are now commercially available and very bright and appear to be even longer lasting than flourescent and less energy used. One is over my computer desk as I type. Four to six of these over the layout will give a lot of bright light. So the question is how much power do I need. Probably not that much since I would be using small LEDs or grain of wheat bulbs needing only 1.5 volts. Storage battery can be small and doesn't have to last more than a couple of hours at most. Solar cell powers battery, which then powers light, or lights, in only one structure. Small assembly mounted in a structure that can be lifted off foundation/base for any needed service. Advantage I see is less wiring under the layout and using small LEDs even longer lifespan measured in years. And I am not after bright light. Most lighting kits are way too bright for the structures often showing through the sides unless the interior is painted black. I'm looking out my upstairs window now at some houses behind me and the lighting that shows throught the windows is subdued not bright, the effect I would want. Basically when the room lights are on you don't see the lights in the structures. Slowly dim the lights and the structures start coming to life with a soft lighting. I don't see the need at this time for a on/off switch. When the room lights are on the system charges. Currently thinking about a one building type installation which would have minimal bulbs rather than trying to power up more than one with one installation. Cost is a factor but may be equalized by not having a bunch of wiring and filament type bulbs or other type equipment. I'm looking at a serious application of the K.I.S.S. principal here. Environmental and energy conservation are not my driving factors here rather less operating hassles and wiring issues. If environmental issues were foremost then I would not be buying these little critters with the circuit boards that have a lot of related environmental concerns in thier manufacture over there and here. For now I will continue to research for supplies and costs to see what there is avaiable and then probably sometime this winter I will take a building kit with a flat roof and assemble a test bed for my idea. Then I'll set it on my chest of drawers in my bedroom and observe over the next six months. Why a flat roof? Because it will be hidden by parapet walls and less visable especially if flush mounted with the roof surface. I've noticed that some of the cells appear to be a green in color thus a green roof, when placed on a sloped roof structure, will camo them some. And since I have a number of chalet type structures they may be able to be made to look like skylights in the roofs. The problems with using a car battery are several. Gas formed when charging means ventilation needed, and its toxic and explosive. Also I'm back to needing wiring which is the reason the idea is floating in my overloaded mind. Less wiring. DCC is not an issue since there have been DC to AC convertors available for years. Had one under the hood of a truck a long time ago to run 120 volt tools. But again I'm back to wiring. I'll probably use radio Shack as a supply source for the test bed first since I don't have to buy in bulk and then have stuff laying around if it doesn't fly.
This may be a problem as most of the ones I have need 12-14 hrs of daylight outside to get them to light for 8 hours at full brightness. On cloudy days , that nite they are pretty dim or not lit at all and/or will go out by midnite with the sunset at 6:00 pm or so. That being said and a given , in order for them to burn on our layout/s while we are fast asleep we would need : Full spectrum lighting in the room and it would need to be on 12-16 hrs a day most likely to give enough of a charge to lite up the LED's. Now we get into engineering what kind of lite, how much does it put out and focus of the lite it self and of course the wife wanting to know why the lights are on in the train room and " nobody's home " and the power company wants us to cut back so they can get a higher rate .... but they love us for running lights on when we don't need them . One could wire the solar panel out side and run a wire into the house to a buss but that defeats the ease of installation , does do away with the lights being on all day long .. and no gassing battering to vent or fumes to breath but stll this will not power the loco's but will power up the the rest of the pike . I have my office lite on 8-9 hrs a day but the layout is put away . After I retire would be a different story but still would not have enuf lighting on to charge up medium size pike ( say 10 collectors and LED's for meduim , small at less that 5 and large , anything over 10 up to unlimited) to possibley run 4-6 hrs and would require me to operate at night after 6 pm during the fall and winter and after 9 during the summer in order to see the effect uless you have good curtains etc. for the room.But won't seems like a REAL nite scene unless very dark , least to me it would not seem real enuf to give me the feeling of a true nite ops. I do believe a sincere test of such a proposial is warranted . I for one will be heading down to the big box store today and see if I can round up 4 or 5 single LED solar lites ( cheaper China made ones ) ( I already eyed the Mrs's lites and got a hot look from her ) and see how it goes . Gives me the excuse to buy a couple of test structures and like you, mount up the collector and wire the lite and see .
The 60 Hz line AC has little to do with the AC generated by a DCC system. Some of the DCC systems sold today require a DC power supply. If all you are wanting to do is provide power for lighting buildings, this is a moot point.
John,you're not doing less wiring,you're just using less wire.What are you going to have? Ten structures,with ten solar panels,ten batteries,ETC? Now,you gotta hide all those panels,wire them in to the batteries,LEDs,ETC. No battery lasts forever,and unless you use huge panels that charge fast,you're gonna have to have your lights on in the room for hours to run your lights before you can do night scenes.Now,contemplate that no battery likes to be totally discharged to zero volts over an over,unless you charge them almost daily,you'll have cell problems.Rechargeables like to be fully charged,discharged to a specific level,then recharged.Running them at all different levels of charge/discharge will absolutely KILL modern cells.I just made the mistake of forgetting to turn off my helicopter after my last crash,left it on for three days.The battery was brand new,maybe fifteen flights on it,Took it out,and threw it right in the garbage because it wouldn't take a charge anymore.And modern gel car/motorcycle batteries are totally sealed,no hydrogen vented at all,and no reason the batteries can't be outside with the solar panel,anyway..
It is possible to fit the whole shebang in a modeled structure. But gosh , half the fun of model railroading is doing stuff different than the next guy and having it work , don't forget the ol' cat skinnin adage , this country was built on that philosiphy .. and really the only one we need to impress is oursleves ... ya? And doing away with conventional wiring for the buildings is enuf of a pull to try it IMHO.
I think some folks may have missed my part where I stated using the K.I.S.S. principal, some didn't. Looking at doing one test bed as simply and cheaply as possible. Already found a cell that even with the indoor lighting puts out more than enough volts for one very small bulb to give the soft lighting I want. And in terms of small bulb I mean not over 1.5 volts or even less. Back to the auto principal again. The standard vehicle system produces 14+ volts while the car operates off 12 volts. That excess current recharges the battery. So if I can get the excess current to be recharging my small battery while the light still burns I'm ahead of the game. And any operating session with reduced lighting, ie: nighttime simulation, would not be very long and the battery should not get depleted. Lights back on again and excess voltage is slowly building the battery back up. Basic premise of the idea is to get away from a lot of wiring going to structures. The structures again would not be permanently affixed to the layout. Virtually everything I build gets a foundation, the foundation would be permanently affixed to the layout while the building using interior tabs would fit on the foundation. Just lift the building off the foundation to do any needed service. The tabs inside the building keep it inplace on the foundation. As far as the idea of batteries that are completely run down not recharging there have been several schools of thought on that one. In my former occupation, before I retired, we carried rechargable halogen flashlights. It was our policy to occasionally allow the lights to completely discharge so they didn't develope a battery memory. We averaged 10 to 12 years off a battery. We did the same for the rechargable radio batteries. Bottom line is I am looking at a way to eliminate any wiring running to the structures and not have a maintenance intensive installation. The less parts the better. Heck I've even thought about a modified Easy Peasy car lighting system, just wave the wand. System is or was fairly inexpensive, but heaven help when it comes time to buy replacement batteries. And the mind has also explored using Chistmas light sets simply plugged into a wall circuit and controlled by a photocell. I would include an off switch with this one. Small 25 light set with the newer technology where a string stays lit when a bulb goes out and again using the removable building to replace a light bulb. And the newer LED lights should eliminate a lot of bulb replacement. Of course there I'm back to wires under the layout again.
You know where this would work well - in the garden, a large scale RR with lighted buildings that charge during the day and go on at night. Make a nice change from standard garden lights.
