The Men Who Built America

paperkite Oct 25, 2012

  1. paperkite

    paperkite TrainBoard Member

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    Anyone catch the History Channels offering of the Men who built America? Post civil war the rail road figures heavily in building America in the first two episodes. Now Carnegie and Rockafeller are having at it with Vanderbuilt right behind em. Over building of the rail system now has no freight to haul and Scott of the PRR dies with his road in a mess , Rockafeller's oil is being pipe lined instead of shiped via rail which angers Vanderbuilt and Carnegies steel is not being used by the RR but for new sky scraper and building constructuon, which is making him richer and richer ( trying to catch up to Rockafellers wealth) . Some steam 2-6-4's being used look pretty real . This was the time track went from being cast to forged steel . Carnegie's mills in Pittsburgh PA could make more steel track in one day than all the cast in a year, which forced him to look else where to sell his steel as the RR were shutting down trackage due to the over building . Carnegie built the first steel bridge over the Mississippi river and locks in the link to the west . ( Go west young man becomes his motto ?)
    for direct tv its channel 269 at 10 pm Pacific time on Tuesdays. No, I don't own any stock in direct . It is a great RR / general history lesson ... unless one thinks they know it all already.
     
  2. GP30

    GP30 TrainBoard Member

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    I watched it the other night and thought it was really good. Looking forward to more next week.
     
  3. subwayaz

    subwayaz TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks I'll have to tune in and see if I can catch it.
     
  4. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    And like all history, you must do a good deal of "reading between the lines" to understand the lessons of history. The "Big Four"(Charles Crocker,Mark Hopkins,C.P.Huntington and Leland Stanford) that built the transcon railroad were parsimonious and piratical old magnificoes. There were valid reasons why it was known as the "Dutch Flat Swindle" and for the Credit Moblier scandal. All of them were the wealthiest men of their time. Mark Hopkins was so cheap, his wife threatened to divorce him unless he provided her with a home suitable to his position(they lived in a tiny two or three room apartment) so he built a mansion on Nob Hill in San Franscisco and they became noted art and antique collectors.
     
  5. RhB_HJ

    RhB_HJ TrainBoard Member

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    Here's another historical fact, the fat cats at the top wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it weren't for the people who did the actual work. A fact that has been overlooked throughout history.
     
  6. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    ============================================================================

    Indeed! The Irish in the east and the Chinese in the west. And that work was done mostly with hand tools! It truly was "The Work of the Age"!

    Charlie
     
  7. ccaranna

    ccaranna TrainBoard Member

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    Very educational and entertaining. I would give this series a thumbs up so far.
     
  8. tootnkumin

    tootnkumin TrainBoard Member

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    And continues to repeat itself today.
     
  9. paperkite

    paperkite TrainBoard Member

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    I don't think the blue collar were ignored. There are monuments to those who worked hard with their hands to build this country everywhere you look. But it did take someone with entrepreneurial savy to launch this country out of the horse and buggy mentality to machine power of that age . As a past union IAM president and chief steward , I saw their hard work every day for seven years , but with out the vision to improve the lives of those around them , we'd still be trying to catch up like the rest of the world. This is the GREATEST nation on earth because of thinkers that dared to take risks and men and women of iron will, willing themselves to follow their lead and to make it happen and the God of Heaven that blessed them all. I don't mean to slight anyone. I just mean to give credit to those who deserve it ,the ones willing to work hard to better them selves and those around them , be it man or woman. Where would we be with out rich people ? That is a rethorical question one should ask themselves...
     
  10. marty coil

    marty coil TrainBoard Supporter

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    After Charles Crocker took over as the 'Road Building Engineer' He was ask by his constuction foremans for steam drills to help in the mountains...He refused...instead, he would use...'Gangs of rock chipping Chinese'........These men cared NOTHING about the railroad, only the money it would produce. From THEIR pockets they spent $159 tousand dollars. When the railroad was completed, they had made.....$139 Million!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. paperkite

    paperkite TrainBoard Member

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    I think it needs said that Crocker was born in Troy, New York, the son of Eliza (née Wright) and Isaac Crocker, a modest family. They joined the nineteenth-century migration west and moved when he was 14 to Indiana, where they had a farm. Crocker soon became independent, working on several farms, a sawmill, and at an iron forge. At the age of 23, in 1845, he founded a small, independent iron forge of his own. He used money saved from his earnings to invest later in the new railroad business after moving to California, which had become a boom state since the Gold Rush. I am not so sure I would be hasty to condemn him. He was dead and gone by the time the big 3 were battleing it out on the east coast, and having to deal with too many miles of track that was not making a dime, new steel technology, and egos larger than the " big four " almost cost Frick, who was president or chair of Carnegie Steel his life at the hands of anarchists. Frick was more ruthless than Crocker me thinks as his pinkerton men killed 9 strikers and wounded many at the steel plant when they hit with a wild cat strike . Shooting unarmed men ??? All the while Carnegie was in Ireland or Scottland , hiding from the press .. None of these guys would get a vote for saint hood from me.
     
  12. Virginian Railway

    Virginian Railway TrainBoard Member

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    It's a good show, and interesting to boot!
     
  13. RhB_HJ

    RhB_HJ TrainBoard Member

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    There would be few if any rich people if they could not depend on those who work with their hands. Has been like that as far back as history has been recorded in one fashion or the other. Quite in contrast to the artists, artisans, scientists, inventers et al down the ages, who actually came up with the new concepts of just about anything you can name. In essence I doubt very much that a rich man invented the wheel, perhaps he added the spokes since they would save lumber - labour was cheap to make spokes - which then could be used to produce more spoked wheels.
     
  14. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Aside from the fact that there are more than a few wealthy men & women who, starting from nothing, have amassed large quantities of wealth...........

    The series is indeed most interesting, and the fact that what happened, happened, is written and remembered. It's history we should know. I'm recording all of this on my TiVo at home.

    I humbly suggest we keep on track here, as it were, and refrain from denigrating one class or another- that doesn't benefit the duscussion at all.
     
  15. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    One of the things that amazes me was the "land grant" program. It had worked with colleges and universities but would it work for railroads? We know the answer to that. But the other half of that equation is the settlers willing to buy that land, mortgaging their future with only the hope of being able to get their produce to market and a market willing to give them a profit. These are the real nation builders. Put yourself in the shoes of a young farm family in Ohio, a family farm being able to subsist and actually earn a profit from the proven rich soil of the midwest. One fine day the young farmer returns to his home from a short business trip and tells his wife and children that he's sold the farm and the family is moving to what is then known as "Indian Territory". What must have gone on in the minds of countless spouses and children! But through the industry,energy,stamina and perseverance of those young families our nation grew and prospered along with the daring farmers,ranchers,orchardists,carpenters,stonemasons and a score of other trades and professions willing to take a big gamble with few certainties. What did it? Two slender rails crudely bolted to rough-hewn crossties and primitive carriages being pulled by what amounted to little more than a tea kettle on wheels. It made millions for its owners,work for its laborers,a market for its farmers,united and settled a young nation and made us a people from shore to shore. Amazing thing that!
    Everytime I see or hear a train it tells me "Progress"!

    Charlie
     
  16. paperkite

    paperkite TrainBoard Member

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    Excuse me , I started the thread as a way to referance the rail road/s that participated in the building of this country. (I feel any discussion of the era is justified as long as we are cool about it) . But that could not have happend with out men and women of vision and courage period. I belive that This is what the HC's purpose of the series is about , that courage and vision and some of the amazing things we were/are able to accomplish.

    So who was responsible for building Canada ?
     
  17. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Of course those same raIlbarons that built it all were responsible for panics and crashes. The Northern Pacific specifically can be blamed for one of the worst depressions ever. And of course so much of the wealth was handed out by the government to build the western routes.
     
  18. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Here here, you cannot have the rail baron without the lowly Irish and Chinese worker on the line, you can't have a steel magnate without the smelters and forgers, you can't be an oil tycoon without the works slaving away.
    To gloss over the rocky history of these groups in the name of having a neat and tidy thread does a disservice to history and the people that lived it.
    Human beings are a messy lot. FULL STOP. Best to tell the whole tale.
     
  19. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Excellent thoughts, Paul.
     
  20. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    You are correct. And if all we are going to have here is a bashing session, we aren't going to continue this topic.
     

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