I'm looking at modernizing a few locos and I'm considering the Fox Valley and Kato Es44AC's. What are you folks' experience with them? I'm especially intrigued with the added detail parts available on the Fox Valley model. Can any of you offer a comparison on performance? Ultimately, that's the most important feature.
Fox Valley which I have 2 in CN w/dcc and 2 in pieces chasing is shorts down when equipped with the decoders. The run great on DC and the 2 that are decoded run well but slow even after messing with the CV's. The details to add are great. Taking your time it took me about 30mins to detail one. I personally have not tried Katos yet. But I can't wait for the NS units to get here.
I bought a FVM one. I especially like all the warning labels on the roof and sides. The roof details are especially nice !! You also get a seperate bag with grabs...snowplow...and sunshades !!! The truck sideframes seem a little 'blotchy' but the other details outweigh that IMHO. After the fact...removing the body from the frame...to install a decoder...I found a much simpler way. http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/C...ale/Fox_Valley_Models/GE_ES44AC/GE_C44AC.html I bought a Digitrax decoder and due to probable 'operator error' on installing it...I had to send it back for repair. I am hoping to get it back soon to see how she runs
I have a bunch of both brands, they both have their good and bad. The FVM overall are more accurate and detailed. The yellow paint on the UP one is also more accurate then Kato but the orange paint and yellow stripes on the BNSF is way off. As far as running quality the Kato is far better although the Kato is not as detailed or accurate, the yellow paint on the UP is too orange but the BNSF looks pretty good. The Kato has the wrong horn, borrowed from their SD70ACe, the FVM has a beautiful brass horn, I wish I could get them as parts to put on my Kato's. The Kato also has the wrong handrails, borrowed from their AC4000CW, minor detail as the only difference is on the conductor side the handrail attaches to the cab rather then ending at a stanchion, the FVM handrail is correct. The Kato trucks also have more depth and look better then the FVM. FVM's look good with all the details added and the warning labels printed all over the model, the Kato's can be detailed and warning label decals added if desired. I have had zero problems with my seven Kato Gevos but I've had problems with some of my FVM's, one had bad wheels and a few had bad motors, FVM took care of all of the problems though, great customer service.
3 dozens kato es44ac here. excellent runners. the shell is not as detailed as the fvm but it is also not glued together. had some fvm es44ac as well. good looking shells but hard to disassemble. drives are junk.
Got a bunch of FVM ES44s - both DC and AC, chassis is common to them all. Decoration is beautiful although not nearly as bright orange as the Kato. Still, the parts availability is nice. Mechanically, they're like the Kato split frame that pretty much everyone uses. I use the Digitrax DZ125IN for DCC and have had my share of issues with them - not the loco, the chips. The locos are quiet and smooth and comparatively slow. With some break in they improve. I had a couple of the early units that were derailment prone, but loosening the frame screws took care of that nicely. FVM hit a home run with these units right out of the gate and I'm confident that as Craig tunes his factories they'll get nothing but better.
I have both and I see little to no difference in the running. Shells have been covered. I will say the FVM take a little longer to break in, but once they are properly broken in, you can't tell the difference between the Kato or the FVM from a motion standpoint. And yes Jim, you are right. I have seen improvements made in every release of the FVM locomotives, so they are getting better and better. So how is that one I sent to you doing?
Thanks for your experiences guys. They are not exactly what I expected. It appears there are some issues with the FVM units when it comes to the drives and wheels. Are they really noisy? And what is this about the wheels being out of round? I sure do like the detail of the FVM but I'm not looking for any "shelf queens". Would you compare the performance more equal to the Intermountain Tunnel Motors vs the tried and true Kato drives? I hate to make this decision on a coin flip.
One of the things I've "heard" about FVM is that they are easier to load up with a DCC decoder; I also like the UP detail and the add-ons. When I buy one (which I will), if I get a dud I'll simply return it until I get one that isn't.
I have both and it is basically a coin flip. The Kato drives are better than FVM, but the shells and details are better on the FVM models. Matt saved me some time by including the dimples for drilling the holes for the grab irons. Makes paint matching that much easier too. Never had one (out of the 15 or so I've owned) with out of round wheel sets, so not sure where that started. Some growled a little louder than others out of the box, but that went away with run time. I use the TCS EUN651 decoder and never had any issues. Easiest decoder install out there currently. http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/C...ale/Fox_Valley_Models/GE_ES44AC/GE_C44AC.html As for the BNSF color on the first batch, I thought Matt did a great job getting it close to the orange and yellow, but just about everyone complained that it looked "horrible" next to the Kato units, so Matt lightened the colors up on subsequent runs to appease the masses. IMHO, the original run made the Kato's look toy like because they were/are too bright. I weather everything so it doesn't matter to me either way. Brian
Matt posted that he should have the first set of Heritage units out soon (not sure what his definition of that means though). He posted that on the Fox Valley Models Facebook page back in early November and has pictures posted of several pre-production samples as well. Brian
I believe the general consensus when it comes to N scale GEVOs: FVM = Looks nice Kato = Runs nice Take your pick on which is more important to you.
FWIW, I have both and I don't see any appreciable difference in performance between the two (IE, both are superb runners). My FVM unit did have a slight buzz initially, but that went away after some break-in time. As for looks, I do think FVM's paint is better (particularly all the little details). On the other hand, I have to say I actually prefer having all the little details molded right into the shell (ala the Kato). All of FVM's little handgrabs and whatnot are still sitting in the box on mine. -Mark
In service one one of the eight trains I have on the layout, never had to pull it off for a look. And back on topic, I far prefer the FVM chassis to the Kato "sprung" chassis as used on the SD70ACe and mid production SD40-2. Kato took it too far IMO, and made it easier to break. Several of my FVMs are quieter than many Katos I have...never had a crooked wheel, never had to send one back. Matt does good!
Great topic Jim and I appreciate all the insight on comparing the two mfgs. I run DC simply because I have too many Kato's of the older style (over 100) to affordably convert at this point in my life. I do look at all of the advantages of DCC and sometimes feel like the little kid with his nose pressed against the window looking in when I see them running on a larger layout. Cody
the kato gevo's do not use the sprung chassis. the mech the gevo use is the same they use in the dash 9's,sd70m's,ac4400's,and the sd70mac's
Sorry about the confusion - I was simply pointing out that Kato's chassis improvement on certain models wasn't, whereas when Matt (FVM) improves, it works.
