GN wood caboose from Laser kit

paperkite Jan 3, 2013

  1. paperkite

    paperkite TrainBoard Member

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    Well after for ever to build this kit, break the hand rails several times , and only able to get the decals marginally accuate .. It is done but a tad under weight . the kit was missing the toilet vent and the nails used for the truck pins , only one fit the plastic bolster the other about .020 too large and I subed in N track nails as they are made to closer tolerances than the tack nails and worked perfect. I used the Polly scale Caboose Red, and Floquil weathered black for the non red parts and Testors rust for the metal wheels. I put a train man in the cupola , I think he is facing the wrong way maybe. and used 1016-1 MT coupler ( plans call for 1015-1 coupler ) , drilled and taped a 0-90 and tap thru the hardboard floor. First ever kit completed. I used a jig for squaring the build , wood glue and CA type at the end to do the roof handrails . When these break off I will attempt forming them from some .010 bronze wire .. sure .
    Thanks for the remarks in advance and taking a look!
    Paul
    DSCN0689.JPG DSCN0697.JPG DSCN0698.JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2013
  2. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Not bad for a first attempt. I will be using the included paper jig for doing my handrails etc. from wire probably the phosphor (spelling?) bronze wire I have in one of my drawers I use for steam handrails. Tougher to bend but again a lot tougher than using brass for handling with my five thumbs. Just have to clear out the projects I have lined up ahead of them before I can get enough space to work on them. Besides those four caboose kits I have three of thier pickle car kits also. One way to strengthen those wood ladders is to ACC either very thin styrene strip like .010 to the back of the ladder beams or thin brass wire or very thin brass strips. While the structure and the roof have a substructure backing those parts don't and are the weak links.
     
  3. hegstad1

    hegstad1 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Good Job. Not an easy task, these kits. They would have been better off doing etched brass grabs, ladders, etc.
     
  4. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    As I recall earlier discussion, this is an AMB kit?
     
  5. paperkite

    paperkite TrainBoard Member

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    Ken , yes AMB #550 .
     
  6. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    This is the same new AMB kit that I reviewed at the end of the GN Caboose thread last year. This is a craftsman type kit and well done however I do echo the comments on the end rails and grabs. Almost the entire kit is laser cut very thin wood, including the entire end rail assembly. And that is going to be the weak link for some folks due to it's very delicate nature. It is very thin and delicate and unlike the majority of the body assembly does not have any precut type of backing to reinforce them. Why the decision to go with the thin wood for these endrails I don't know other than cost comes to mind. The smoke jack is plastic and appears to be the same as MT's smoke jack, and the end steps and some underframe brake parts are either plastic or cast resin which does bring up the question of why the end rails could not have been of the same material, or as earlier stated etched brass. No wire is provided in the kit to do handrails and grabs but on the last page of the instructions is a template to do your own. What suprises me is that the brakewheels are also laser cut from the same thin wood. Anyway these kits are not going to be to much of a challenge to me except, and thats a BIG EXCEPT, the danged endrails. Thoughts are already crossing my mind to possibly make molds of the end rails and do resin castings and the parts boxes may have some commercially available grabs that can save me some labor of making full sets times four each. I also just remembered that I have brass N scale car ladder stock and I may, if the rungs match up, be able to simply laminate that to the end rail assembly reinforcing a weak point. Anyway when I finally get the current projects done, hopefully by the end of this month, I'll lay the kits out and start the assembly line and then see if I still like these kits or if I'm turning the air blue with expressions like Nottafinga and yagsackett.
     
  7. EricB

    EricB TrainBoard Member

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    What about using the ends from MT. Aren't they available as a separate part?
     
  8. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Ladder is on wrong side and the topside handrails are not curved like on the MT. The GN topside handrails are squared off.
     
  9. marty coil

    marty coil TrainBoard Supporter

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    John.....I like to use the .010 brass from Detailed Associates or bronze from Tichy for the side grabs, but for the cupola I use the .080. To turn the grab, try the groove at the end of an Xacto knife.You get a very smooth arc. There is a tool that can be used for turning the wire from Micro Marx or Model Expo. Since the ladders are on left, Gold Medal bay window caboose part allows for 2 cabooses and can be used onthe left and turned to creat the odd GN Style. Also, MicronArt has aset of brass ladders...Just some ideas
     
  10. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I had not looked at the Gold Medal stuff other than handrails and grabs so really was unaware of the conversion kit. Might work though. Took awhile but I finally found a decent picture of the GM end rails and will have to sit down later today and see if they are a close match other than for the ladder position. If so that may be a good solution for these kits plus a retro for some of my other SP&S cabooses that just lack a correct end ladder placement.
     
  11. marty coil

    marty coil TrainBoard Supporter

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    And Example...Gold Medal Ladders and end rails, .010 brass side grabs, .080 cupola grabs and inside hand rails


    DSCF2767.jpg DSCF2770.jpg
     
  12. paperkite

    paperkite TrainBoard Member

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    Marty,
    Am I seeing a photo of the one you did for me?
    Paul
     
  13. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well the ladder is right but the danged brake wheel assembly is on the wrong side. So time to go to some of my books and see if GN had a few with the same brakewheel orientation. If so I'm good to go with the GM part as a replacement. Still have to order trucks and I'm not sure if I'm going with the recommended Atlas trucks or the MT without couplers.
     
  14. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Does anyone know how to go about finding someone to do brass etching for a project like this (and how expensive)?

    The end ladder detail has been a weak spot of the NKP-1000 series caboose project on Shapeways, though I now think we largely have that licked in "version 2" of the caboose, where we moved the end ladders to separate "detail parts" on a separate sprue. But if I could get these done in .010 brass within reason on the expense side, it would be worth it for the finer detail and immunity from breaking (I might bend the brass, but won't have to worry about breaking it).

    I don't know much about custom brass etching - like whether it is even possible (though I think I've seen "home-brew" etching kits . . . )

    John C.
     
  15. marty coil

    marty coil TrainBoard Supporter

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    Paul...That's it
     
  16. marty coil

    marty coil TrainBoard Supporter

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  17. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I looked at the Atlas parts but once again the danged brakewheel mounting is the sticking point. They had a horizontal mounted brakewheel vs a vertical mount. And everything in my box from MP to MT has the same issue. At this point I am thinking that using the brass ladder will take care of that potential weak spot on the original end railing in the kit, and then replacing the wood brakewheel with a MT brakewheel, and going with the bent wire handrails and grabs is probably going to be my option. I do have one other option up my sleeve and that is to reinforce the whole end rail assembly with thin tissue paper and ACC except for the ladder which will be brass. The brass etching would be a good viable alternative if the cost of a pair of etchings don't exceed the cost of the caboose. It would be a better option than trying to do a resin casting which would be very thin thus potentially brittle. Whatever way works out I have the time to assemble the needed stuff since this is about four weeks down the line on my project list.
     
  18. robert3985

    robert3985 TrainBoard Member

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    I've got a couple of odd suggestions (they work for me). I know that fabricating brass end-platform parts is a tedious process (I'm doing it for all of my kit-bashed UP CA-1's, kit-built Goldenweest CA-3/4/5's), but, I've got a lot of experience making teeny brass parts, along with expensive specialized equipment (such as my resistance solderer) that many of you may not have.

    I see two solutions for fabricating end-platform parts for N-scale cabooses using low-tech, available materials and techniques.

    One, if the kit has small, laser cut parts that are wood, soaking those parts in runny CA will make them at least three times stronger than untreated parts. Ya gotta be careful however, and apply a piece of tissue to the drop of runny CA that will form on the downhill end of your part. You don't want that big drop to harden up, but you also don't want the tissue to get glued to the part (or your fingers!). I usually do it in two steps, holding the part with fine tweezers and soaking the bottom half first, letting it cure, then flipping it over and doing the other half. I've had bad luck using Accelerator, so I just let the soaked parts harden up by themselves or I breathe on them, which speeds things up also.

    Two, sometimes I'll fabricate a proposed brass assembly out of paper, using various thicknesses of paper (which I measure with my calipers), cutting the strips and shapes with a sharp #11 Xacto blade, a swivel knife, or sharp surgical scissors (iris scissors). I use various triangles and/or straightedges I've got laying around to both cut the parts and bend them. After I've got a piece bent up properly, such as a really small C-channel, or a Z-beam, I soak the part in runny CA, just like in the previous paragraph, remove the excess (dripping) CA and let it cure, using my breathe to speed things up. After I've got my parts built, I attach them to each other using spots of runny CA again. These paper parts can also be drilled, filed and sanded so you can attach brass or plastic parts to them, such as ladder rungs, brake wheel shafts or other detail parts.

    The nice thing about the paper parts is that they have no grain, such as wood does, so that if you bend them after they're attached, they'll actually bend rather than break. They obviously are less durable than brass parts, but, they're also easy to straighten and re-stiffen with another little application of runny CA. Another nice thing about them is that they're really low-tech to fabricate, and look reasonably good after you're done, as long as you don't overdo the CA "soaking".

    When I was designing the assembly for my brass UP cantilever signal bridges, I built several paper ones that were just as detailed as the brass ones would be, minus the rivet details. That was a long time ago, and if Archer and Micro Mark rivet decals has been available then, I might have just stuck with the paper models rather than scratch building them in brass at nearly 80 hours per bridge (mostly spent embossing rivets with a NWSL Riveter).

    Just a suggestion.

    As far as grabs are concerned, I now use .007" stainless wire I buy from www.smallparts.com, which I swipe a couple of times through a folded piece of 320 grit sandpaper to give it "tooth" before bending, attaching and painting. The logic is, if I handle my cars (which is inevitable if I'm going to run them) eventually, the paint will probably wear off the protruding parts. It they're silver rather than brass, they look more prototypical if the paint comes off. When I bend up passenger grabs for my U.P. Streamliners, I don't sand them but leave them bright to replicate the nickel finish of the prototype. They look exponentially better than silver-painted brass ones.

    Cheers!
    Bob Gilmore
     
  19. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Might be an answer in using the thinnest ACC available and since the end assembly is supposed to be metal having any wood grain showing would be a negative. Wood should soak it up filling any grain and sounds better than my trying to laminate or substitute a brass ladder. So I may give it a try on one set before I order any parts. I have the phosphor bronze blackwire used for steam handrails and that is what I intend to use for the grabs but I also have the stainless so I may play with both.
     
  20. Chris333

    Chris333 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Any one trying to have stuff professionally etched I would highly recommend PPD http://www.ppdltd.com/

    Even though they are in Scotland it is still reasonable and they have no minimum order. If you want one piece that is 1"x1" they will do it.
     

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