The best laid plans of mice and men...

Remember I said no more benchwork changes? Well guess what? The 2x3 dimensional lumber legs are warped. When I was trying to add the second frame (for shelving) to the lower half of the legs everything pulled so massively out of square it wasn't even funny. So darn frustrating.

So now what? Well I think it's time to switch to plywood. Some 1/2" to make L legs at the minimum. The 1x4's that I'm using seem to be fine. Anyone ever mix dimensional lumber and plywood? Good idea? Bad idea?

Ben

 

I don't think mixing the 2 would be a problem if you screw through the plywood into the dimensional lumber and use a good glue at the joint. You might want to drill small pilot holes first just to prevent splitting. I can surely relate to the warping problem. Finding a straight board nowadays makes a needle in a haystack look like a walk in the park! Best of luck on the new legs.

 

I disagree. Do not use glue. Use screws only on the layout and predrill with a countersink. Screws can be removed if you need to make changes, for any reason, sometime down the road. Expansion/contraction problems, warpage, change of mind, etc. can more easily be addressed by unscrewing the affected area and correcting the problem. But with glued joints it becomes a far more complicated problem. In short, is you that is screwed not the layout. Most people think you have to use glue but we got Ntrak modules that are twenty years old that are only held together with screws and I would think they face more problems with the transport, setting up/tearing down process than a static layout.

Now having said that MRR Rule #1 applies so if you really want to use glue then go ahead.

 

When I set forth to build the bench-work for my current layout, I took one look at the crap that passes for lumber in theses regions and went entirely with ½” cabinet grade plywood.

I bought 4’x8’ sheets and found a woodworking shop that cut them into 3½” x 8’ lengths for only $5 a sheet. This is what is known as a “Bargain”.

I bought one sheet of ¾” and had that cut into 1½” x 4’ lengths which I screwed and glued into 1½” x 1½” legs.

No warping, no splitting, no knotholes etc, etc, etc. Single best decision I made with regards to building this layout.

To give you some idea just how bad the lumber was; I purchased four 2”x 2”s to use as legs on a do-it –yourself workbench. I attached to legs to the table frame using ¼” bolts/nuts and large fender washers. I was tightening the bolts using a socket wrench and open end wrench combo and I kept ratcheting and ratcheting wondering when I was going to encounter some torque indicating I was actually tightening down on the wood.

Eventually I realized something wasn’t right and I looked under the top to find that the 1½”Dia. fender washer had collapsed the 2x2 leg like so much Styrofoam. Oh well; back to the drawing board.

 

When I had a going layout, I resolved from the beginning that every leg would have cross-bracing in both directions. Essentially, each segment of the layout was a cube or box. As result, I could use lighter construction materials while still being ridged and this arrangement kept everything square.

 

I was just referring to using glue for the new replacement legs in case they were a plywood/dimensional lumber combination. I agree with you 100% on not using glue for the benchwork. As you said MRR Rule #1 always applies.

 

Basically, I did the same for my current layout. The main body of the layout consists of four 4 x 4 tables which are braced solid and square and connected together to form a 4 x 16 footprint. The frames are 1 x 3's with 2 x 2 legs and 1 x 2 braces. I used regular lumber from Home Depot, picking out the straightest pieces I could find. I topped it off with 1/4 inch plywood (again the cheap stuff) and 2 sheets of 1 inch foam over that.
You can get by with regular (and affordable) box store lumber if you're patient enough to go through the stacks and put it together in a solid configuration. Once it's securely screwed together, it's as solid as a battleship.

 

I have bought premium pine dimensional lumber at Loews and Home Depot for rather reasonable prices. Straight, no splits, knots, warpage or other other imperfections. When sealed with primer and painted [before assembly] make excellent benchwork or modules frames.

 

So here is what I did. The table tops and 'shelf supports' are made from 1x4 quality lumber. However the legs are made from 1/2" plywood that was ripped into 3" strips. Two of those strips are then glued and nailed into an 'L' to form a leg. Using a $10 2'x4' sheet of plywood I can make 4 legs which is perfect. I do use glue simply because I'm making modules. When the modules are joined they are bolted but I am gluing because my construction design is open grid.

Just my preferred method and I know I'll pay the price of Murphy's Law at some point.

Premium Lumber at our Big Box stores like Lowes, Home Depot or Menards is very expensive right now. A good 1"x4"x8' is running $7 - $8 if it's not on sale.

 

I had added these to a wishlist at Lowes: 1 x 4 kiln-dried whitewood softwood board for $4.42 - would they be OK to use for benchwork? If not, I'll go the plywood route, too, Ben! I'm not married to anything at this point. :teeth:

 

I have been using a mix of solid wood product and ripped cabinet grade plywood to build my open grid benchwork and it is working out pretty well considering my modest carpentry skills. I have always used solid wood one by's in the past and this is the first time I have used ripped ply, and I am reasonably pleased. There is still some bowing of the boards, but but warp and twist are pretty much eliminated and the ply seems just as strong as the solid when used in a grid. The exception for me is for legs. I use 1x3's and 1x2's screwed together to make L shaped legs and then use a 45 degree brace and a cross brace to reduce the lateral play. I have been using the clear Radiatta pine from Home Depot for my solids, and although it is expensive, it is pretty straight and easy to work with. It has always seemed to me that good benchwork is critical to a good layout, so I spend a few extra bucks on it if I can. One big, big discovery I have made in the tool section of Depot. Irwin Heavy Duty Angle Clamps. Not cheap, $19 each, but I have six of these and I can layout a grid section on the floor of my workshop and square it up with these clamps in no time at all. Two #8x1-1/2 countersunk wood screws at each joint and I have a grid section that is tight, solid, and level. I can't believe I ever built grid without these. If you are doing open grid benchwork, which I think is the only way to go using extruded foam for subroadbed, then these are tremendous tool. I have thrown in some pics, hope they give you a few ideas.

View attachment 51147 View attachment 51148 View attachment 51149 View attachment 51150 View attachment 51151

 

Nice looking benchwork! Don't sell yourself short that is well constructed. I also agree on the 90 degree clamps. I use one but it makes a tone of difference!!

I'm going to be using 1/4 ply tops followed by Sound dampening ceiling tiles instead of homasote followed by the extruded insulation board.

 

Honestly Ron, it's a crapshoot. I'm guessing for 4.42 those will be full of knots and splits. The more knots the more susceptible to warping. TrainTodd is using the same concept for his legs ('L' shaped legs) but with dimensional lumber. There are different qualities or grades for dimensional lumber. The higher the grade the more expensive the lumber but the less knots, splits and warping.

With a true straight edge, it was really easy to rip the legs from the plywood since my table legs are 38" (we have some vertically challenged people in the house :cute One 2'x4' sheet of plywood ripped to 3"x48" strips will make 4 legs. I can get that piece of plywood at Menards for $10. I'd buy 4'x8' sheets but Menards doesn't cut lumber and my Subaru won't handle large sheets unless I cut it in the parking lot or put my kayak racks back on and I really don't want to do that since it's winter.

 

You're certainly right about it being a CRAPshoot, if you get my drift. :crying: I'm really curious about how the ceiling tiles will take to the scenicing process. Will you be painting the tiles and adding the grass and texturing directly to it? Keep us appraised of any issues on that process! I'm getting ready to build a tiny 3' x 4' figure eight for breaking in and speed matching new locos, but decided to add a few small industries and a dinky yard to have something to do while the locomotives go around and around. I like the tile concept, but would need to know if it will stand up to the paint, water and glue. Thanks for the cool thread - I'll be watching closely. :teeth:

 

I know having a jointer/planer can be a bit of a luxury, but if you have a router you can go a long way towards reclaiming no-so-good dimensional lumber.

I'll even buy the stuff no one else wants, storing it until needed. I do have to let the wood settle before working with it, keeping it in the conditions where it will reside, before it's satisfactory for use. Of course, it's dependent on a number of factors you may not want to deal with just to do the initial benchwork build.

That said, proper sealing of the wood will mitigate most of the issues unless your layout will experience considerable extremes in temp/humidity changes.

Good luck!
Greg

 

Absolutely Greg! If I wasn't renting it would be a different story. Same if I had a tablesaw I trusted.

 

Ron, I've read a couple articles about it and they said to treat it like homasote. Make sure you seal it and the tile will be fine. I'm actually not applying directly to it since my layout is Appalachia. I'll need to be using a lot of extruded insulation!

 

Thanks for the heads up! Aaaah, those mountains - I'll be modeling north central Indiana, which is flat as a billiard table and very lightly wooded. There are some undulations and creeks and gullies, but nothing much of note. Think I'll stick with 1/4" ply and 1-1/2" foam for my first dinky experiment.

 

If you have time, I'm hoping to have some of those tiles in this weekend. I think.....If everything goes right....and zombies don't show up!