RSD12?

With the revised Atlas RS11 in the pipeline, what are the possibilities of making an "acceptable" RSD12 from the RS11 shell and the "classic" RSD4/5 chassis?

Stock, the RSD4/5 is the worst puller on my roster. Even my LifeLike SW's out-pull them.
Modified, I have pulled 54 cars with a single ATSF Zebra RSD4/5 on the releatively level NTrak layout at the trainpark.

The RS11 shell has a lot more room in it, so there might be room for a whole row of A-line peel-n-stick slugs, or other weight, in the roof of the shell, if the lower, RS3-based RSD chassis is used.

I'd rather use weights than rubber tires, which gave me the 400% increase in TE on that Zebra.

Maybe Atlas will make an RSD12 again? There are Kato powered Atlas RSD12's out there, but I always see them quickly zoom out of my financial comfort zone when they turn up in the auctions.

The RSD12 would be a great loco for my era and would match up well with my roster of transition era freight cars:

C&O had 10 units, built in early 1956
Pennsy had 25 units, delivered in 1957-58
EsPee had 21 units, delivered in 1961

South of the border, Pacifico and NdeM were both good customers, with Pacifico purchasing 19 units 1958 - 1961, while NdeM rostered a total of 72 units, built 1959-1962.

Other original owners included the Nickel Plate - 9 units, Lake Superior & Ishpeming - 4 units, the Indian Railways - 30 units, RFSSA (Brazil) - 10 units

So, how close could you come with an RS11 shell on an RSD chassis? What would be the compromises in dimensions or major details?

 

LT

I haven't tried that conversion, but the original Atlas/Kato RSD12 was just the RS3 frame with the 3-axle RSD 4/5 trucks and an RS11 body, so you should be able to make the conversion. And yes, there will be room for added weight.

I agree that the RSD5's are poor pullers, but I like 'em anyway. Using DC, they will mu well with either the RS1 or the Kato RS2 since both seem to use the same motor and gearing (at least for the older "fast motor" varieties). This lets me "mix it up" a bit on longer freights, quadruple heading with an RS5 in the lead, folowed by an RS2, then an RSD5, and finally an RS1 at the rear. Not prototypical use on ATSF but a lot of fun to watch.

 

I bought "fast motor" RS1's to help my pairs of "fast motor" RSD4/5s. Adding one RS1 virtually doubles the total TE, since my single RS1's will almost out-pull a pair of the RSD's. My "fast motor" RS3s don't pull nearly as well as my RS1's, for some reason - possibly due to changes in frame allory, wheel plating composition, or both.

For the recent release of "slow motor" SP Black Widow RSD's, I MU them with a single LifeLike SD7/9. The combination pulls 66 cars no sweat. Since the RSDs are only good for 11-12 cars each, that means that well-used LL SD is pulling over 40 cars of that load.

Point is, my LifeLike SD7/9s MU perfectly with the newer RSD's on analog DC.

Second point is, the LL SD also drives only 8 of the 12 wheels, making the TE comparison between the units even more profound. The LifeLike is of the old school "plastic frame with lead slugs" construction. The RSDs have light-alloy split frames, and very slippery plating on the drive wheels. You can increase the TE of the recent issue RSD's by 33% just by grinding the plating off the drivers. That's how I got 23-24 cars of pull out of my pair. Out of the box, they only pulled 8-9 cars per unit.

 

What are the major differences in the superstructure of the RS11 and RSD12?

Within the same "phase", are they the same body with different tanks and rolling stock below the sills?

 

LT

That's the way Atlas/Kato did it, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Atlas/Kato RSD12's were close but not quite right. I just can't remember what the difference was but Atlas accomodated an RSD12 by using the RS3 frame, RS11 body, and RSD4/5 trucks. I very vaguely recall that perhaps the chassis length was short a bit, but I may be wrong on that.

Its good to know that the Life Like SD7's will mu well with the slow motor RSD5's. Of course, now I have to go out and get a slow motor RSD5.

 

I discussed this with Cory @ S.D.

Almost no one but me has asked for a re-toooled RSD-12. Both he and I were surprised it has drawn no interest.

My 8-10 won't justify them doing the re-work.

 

I remember discussing that somewhere and that is correct, the RSD12 has a different frame than the RS11. Seems like it is about 2 feet longer.

As long as we are wishing, how about an RS32? It might work on an RS3 or an RS11, but it needs a low hood.
http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/rs32_photos/4006_sp-rs32-bob_dengler.jpg

 

I've brought up the RSD12's before on another forum, but the topic quickly took a turn into the need for Baldwin Road Switchers, not more Alco's, with the AS416 drawing a disproportionate share of hobby lust, it would appear to me.

While I'd like some C&O Baldwin road switchers, too, I suspect we might have a far better chance at getting RSD12's than any kind of Baldwin hood anytime soon.

It is the C&O RSD12s or AS616's that I need, to pull a train of (mostly) 2-bay C&O hopper cars I already own. But I'd still be sorely tempted to buy one each of PRR, SP and NdeM if they were issued in 1955-1962 paint schemes, to add variety (and TE) to other existing loco consists.

I'd prefer 12-wheel hoods for coal service, and Alcos or Baldwins to any EMD. My pair of Atlas RS1's will pull the whole hopper train, but they look mis-cast in that role, to my eye.

 

I remember discussing that somewhere and that is correct, the RSD12 has a different frame than the RS11. Seems like it is about 2 feet longer.

As long as we are wishing, how about an RS32? It might work on an RS3 or an RS11, but it needs a low hood.
http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/rs32_photos/4006_sp-rs32-bob_dengler.jpg </font>[/QUOTE]An RS32 would be interesting, too, but it is the earlier prototypes I need to pull the cars I already own. That's one of the drawbacks to the way I have populated my roster of NTrak runners. I tend to accumulate cars, hoping someone will eventually make the appropriate loco I need to pull them. I had high hopes for the Bachmann 2-6-6-2, but I'm glad I passed that one up.

The old Atlas RS11 has some compromises that were considered acceptable in its day.

It uses a mechanism based upon the Kato mech for the earlier RS3 - in fact, it may be the same mech. Whatever the case, there are compromises in proportions because the overall wheelbase and truck positions are merely "close". Not as obvious deviations as the same mech under a GP7 shell, which Atlas also tried, but still technically "incorrect".

The Spookshow Locomotive Encyclopedia site has photos and writeups of all 3 locos.

 

How about a set of TRAINMASTERS? Not Alco or Baldwin, but definitely not EMD either. And very effective at heavy freights.

 

LT,
I've had a 'back burner project' forever to model the C&O RSD12s and I was going to follow an old article (I believe it was for N&W versions) that showed it being done since the old Atlas offering was too short.
These are very distinctive (handsome and brutish) locos that C&O called 'Dragon Ladies'!
It will be interesting to see if the new Atlas Alcos will help this long waiting project- unless someone makes that actual lokies soon?

Don

 

As much as I love those odd ball units the chessie had, they did not like to use them in coal service. I belive RSD12's we're used in mixed frieght drag service and AS616's we're given oddball jobs like locals and sometimes showed up drilling a yard. Then again I could be wrong. Isnt someone coming out with C&O GP7's? Geep 7's we're favorites for coal trains early on.

 

OK, for my feeble meory, what were (are?) the main drawbacks of the Bachster 2-6-6-2? Were they mostly related to running properties on code 55 track or were there problems code 80 track as well?