Hello.... For the last couple of days I have been glued to the screens of my ipad and iPhone searching everything from N scale too HO scale. So it looks like I'm 99% going with N scale. I have a few questions on these two pictures I found on the web. My first question is how do you read these layout plans? Are there different levels of track? My second question is how much room would I need to build a layout like these? My third question is.. is it possible to bring this image into a design program or do I have to start from scratch? My last question is.. Is there a program that I can input my measurements (space I have to work with) and the program will give me different designs and if I want to change something here or there I can? (The room I have would be 16-18 feet X 4 -5 feet. Then I can add the "L" to one side and get maybe 8 more feet.) I have not downloaded any software for designing a layout yet. Thanks for any input and for setting me straight if I need to be set straight!! Bob K2RGF
Bob, a few answers, plus some recommendations. First, the plan on the left looks like an enormous--and I mean enormous--backyard layout; if it was built as a tabletop plan, there would be no practical way to access 90% of the track. It also looks as though someone modified it, as there are additions or revisions in red. The other plan is for a more modest layout, but still very large as layouts go, and looks European in style; it has a number of operation issues from what I can see. I would strongly advise against a beginner even thinking about tackling either of them. Not only would they be an incredibly daunting challenge to build, but you don't have a fraction of the space required for either of them (not to mention they'd be prohibitively expensive). I do not know of any track planning software that will import a bitmap image and convert it into a track plan. Nor do I know of any program that will generate variations on a theme. My best advice, before even looking at track plans and in particular before downloading any track planning software, is to purchase some books on layout building for beginners, as well as a book on layout operation and perhaps even one on how railroads work. By then you should be able to "read" a track plan, and also have a better idea of what to look for in a plan for yourself--which should be small and simple, so you can learn without spending (and potentially wasting) a lot of money on something you could not possibly complete. You may find a plan you'd like to build, and won't even need planning software. One of the biggest mistakes beginners make is thinking that track planning software will help them design a functional layout--sort of like thinking a word processor can make someone a writer. I hope this advice is taken in the supportive spirit in which it is offered.
Hello David. Thank you for all the info. I will look into the books. I know one of the layouts looked very big but the other one not so much. I guess I am in dream mode right now due to a combination of looking at all the layouts on here and the rest on YouTube. The first things on the list is to pick up a few books and try to locate a club close to me. Thanks again Dave Bob
I would heartily agree with David's suggestions. I would guess that the simpler of the two (gray background) would require a room at least 14' x 10' as it is drawn.
So, if I understand, you'll be able to end up with an 18 X 13 foot "L" ? If so, would this be against the wall, and/or in a corner** (ala the attached image)? Let me have an idea of what you're working with.. and I'll sketch a few plans to give you some scope and reference..
Before dreaming up empires you could do some reading as stated by David K. Smith. Track Planning For realistic Operation by the late John Armstrong explains how real railroads work (the first half of the book). Then he explains why not every car or engine will run over every track configuration and last but not least he explains some trackplans. One of the issues is reach-in distance. Anything further away then 30" from an aisle is out of reach, which is awkward when a derailment happens. Besides building that far down is difficult, so is maintaining. Tony Koester wrote a couple of books about operating layouts. Many books do exist about building your first; the Model Railroader site has a bookshop section. How to design and operate a small switching layout are books by Lance Mindheim. IMHO worth every penny cause they show you size is not anything. When reading 102 Realistic Track Plans, also by Kalmbach Publications, hence in the MR-mag bookshop under special issues, you will find a treasure cove of plans that are really built. Try to look at how reach-in distance is dealt with, how the balance between radii and kind of equipment is and above all if you can imagine how trains can be run over those layouts. You will probably see the basic configuration is quite easily understood. Most trackplan drawings are under copy-right. Those done by the commercial press are done with very special programs, probably special developments of existing software. They are dow-loadable, though not usable for just changing trackplans. Smile Paul
Hello Paul Thank you for taking the time to type up all this info especially on the book names I should pick up. I have downloaded a few .pdf's from here and there on bench work, different track curves etc. This weekend I will pass by a train shop and see if he carries any of the above mentioned books. If not I will be on the web ordering. Thanks again Bob K2RGF
Some good advice here, I am currently in the design phase of my second layout. Before you decide it is important you understand what you want out of your layout . Do you want to watch continuous running of long trains or do you want to switch trains and have realistic operations? What are you modelling, prototype or no particular railroad? My first layout was N scale which is owned for 17 years. I built it to run long trains hence N scale however I soon realised watching trains going round and round became a little monotonous so I looked for switching opportunities. My new layout is going to be in HO because as my modelling matured I found myself wanting to detail locomotives and caboose etc. with the advent of sound and dcc control and the fact I wanted a switching layout Ho seems more appropriate for me. Everyone have their own wants and needs there is no right or wrong. I do suggest you read Lance Mindheim books as I have just finished reading all 4. Good luck and I look forward to seeing what you decide btw you can read my layout design thread " MoPac switching layout" in the layout design forum
Hello Brett That picture you posted is what I have. (or am allowed to use. Lol) This would have to go in the corner. What I am interested in...? as a kid I would draw train yards with all the switch track and a round house on the side of the yard. We had a pool table and right next to it a sheet of plywood. That sheet of plywood was filled with switch track and straight runs of track to the end. We never had enough trains to fill it all up but we didn't care. It was alot of fun. So I would like to design something with a yard and round house in it. The last issue is... I was all set on N scale until I spoke to one of my childhood "HO" friends. I mentioned I was getting back into the hobby. This guy has moved to a few different states through the years. And his trains have always went along. They have not been out of the boxes in 25 years and he said they are mine if I want them. So I will be heading out his way to pick up about a dozen moving boxes of ho trains and track. So it looks like I will be going HO. Thanks Bob
Brett Can I ask what software do you use? I started reading through threads of all the diffrent software we can use to model a layout. I have a Windows 7 machine with 8 gigs of ram. There seems to be a following on a bunch of diffrent programs. I am new so I would like to start out with something easy while I work my way through the books Paul posted above. Thanks Bob
I did a very quick search on google and a lot of books came up on amazon and other Train Forums etc. I am a little down the Hwy from "TrainLand" so I will hit him first plus I can take a nice look around. Whatever he doesn't have I will need to get from the web. I really thought I could jump right into all this and be up and running in a few weeks!! LOL After reading through some files on bench work reality has "set" in!!! I really appreciate all the help from everyone!! I hope this thread helps someone out in the future who is about to get into Model Trains. Very helpful. Thanks Bob
Before you get too deeply involved in benchwork, tracklaying, etc. have you asked what railroad(s), terrain, and era you're going to model? My observation is that answering these questions early often leads to simplification of many items and many false or stutter starts are avoided. For example if you chose to model Conrail in the 1980s in New Jersey versus the Western Pacific in California in the 1960s you're going to have two very different sets of rolling stock, track ratios/density, terrain, and to a large extent buildings.
Hello Dave I would like to model the PRR in the "transitional" period/era. I started a little search on the PRR and found this cool web page.. http://prr.railfan.net/ maybe someone can use it or just take a look when bored.. I then did a few searches on the books Paul said to pick up and found this book.. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0393023575 Back to google to search "PRR transitional period" and "PRR locomotive to desiel" and I find a bunch of diffrent info. Many different web pages have close to the same pictures. But a lot of these web pages have diffrent years that the PRR started the transition. So what is everyone modeling during this period with this RR? What are my choices? I went back down to the basement last night and I might be able to squeeze in some more room. I'm painting the entire basement now and once done I will take some pictures and post them here so you guys and gals can see what I'm working with. I want to add that I have a little chief engineer/boss in this project. She is 7 years old and her name is Janette. She is with me every other weekend so the most important part of this layout is we can run two or more trains at the same time. Everything else is gravy. Thanks again Bob K2RGF
Bob, Before you decide to go HO based on getting the trains from your friend, you have a few important steps to do: 1. Take the HO trains and test them. I am assuming that he is giving you some track and a power pack and that it is al DC. Set up a loop and test all of the locos and the cars to see how the run and roll. 2. Make an inventory of the locomotives so that you can determine the feasibility of adding DCC decoders to them. 3. Measure and diagram the train room to determine how much space you really have for the benchwork. Depending on the trains you plan on running, HO will require a bare minimum of 20" radius on the curves, so for a half circle, the benchwork would need to be about 44" wide at that point. Of course, you can do point to point instead of a loop but that will have its own consideration for turning locomotives around for the return trip. Share the books and research with your Chief Engineer so she can help you make the decisions ...
I use CadRail.. it's payware and has a bit of a learning curve, but it's very powerful... I see where you might go 'HO', and see where you might be able to negotiate more territory.. That's key, because even though the difference between, HO & N in scale is ~2:1; it's actually 4:1 in "acreage".. IOW, it might be tough to squeeze an HO, roundhouse, useable-yard, and 2-train capability (assuming 30" min radius) into that space.. I'll wait for the final survey report.. then sketch a reference plan or two..
OK then.. this would represent your possible benchwork, and you'd have room to move about and up to, all the 'tan' edges ? If so, for reference, in HO scale.. here's a very basic, double-main, simple yard, roundhouse plan, with a two-industry switch-back.. the upper leg will allow for ~25" radius (23" for a double track).. That's do-able in HO, but it's really tight for big, 6 axle locos, and/or common passenger cars (I'd want 30" minimum). You can see how quickly even a this plan would eat up real estate.. and how crowded it will get with a use-able yard / round-house. And if you get into elevation changes,, it takes about 16' @ 2% grade, for a track to "bridge" over its original elevation. Now of course this is plenty of space for an interesting HO layout.. just beware of the limitations. An 'N' scale railroad on that bench area, would be full of possibilities.. Have you nailed down your scale choice ? When you do.. I'll come up with something more creative..
Hello Brett Thank you for drawing this up. Looks great!! I have been reading up on compromises in layouts. (You don't always get what you want.) This is a good start for me and once I pick up those books I think I will understand much more. We will be sticking to HO. After reading through diffrent forums and blogs on N scale I was really set on this scale. But.. I was only thinking of myself and this layout is also for a 7 yr old. I think the bigger trains will be handled better by her. Also I have located an HO club not to far from me. I would love to find a club just starting out so you could learn A through Z. (Anybody reading this and is thinking of starting a club in Long Island, NY please let me know) Thanks again for taking the time Brett to help me out. Bob
