I've actually had more trouble with adults than children. One man got so nasty, profane, and confrontational after being told for the 3rd or 4th time to quit handling the trains, that the runners on duty had to ask him to leave. In an act of defiance, he swept his hand over the layout, sending train cars flying. (The man was intoxicated.) We share a common wall with a city Police substation. A glance out the window shows whether there are Crown Vics in reserved Police parking spaces. Since it is a violation of a City Ordinance to have alcohol on City Park grounds, let's just say, a person might get more than they bargained for in such an incident. In the past 2 or 3 years, I've witnessed a half a dozen other instances where an adult went ballistic after repeated warnings directed at them, or their child. The attitude is usually based on the presumption that they are on Public Property and we have no authority. We point out that we lease the building, and they are welcome as "guests" in our "house", but only if they are willing to agree to keep their hands off the trains, the layout, and the controls. We have had items stolen. One person grabbed a loco and took off running, with operators and guests alike in hot persuit. Seeing that he was not going to escape, he hurled the loco onto the sidewalk, sending fragments flying everywhere. Of course, the owner stopped to pick up the pieces, and the punk got away. Most thefts are of small items, where the person with that particular illness feels compelled to take "something". They don't care about the value of the item. They steal for the rush. [ September 22, 2005, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: LongTrain ]
Sorry, Inky, I don't know the exact dimensions. I'll guess 20 x 40 feet, maybe a little less. </font>[/QUOTE]Get a bigger room or change your name to Shorttrain. Seriously though, the old rectangular Ntrak layoutrs eat up a lot of space with most of it in the interior where it is of little benefit. In our setups we have gone to an "L" shape which takes up only 55% of the space of a rectangular layout. We are considering an "E" shape as well with the depth of each leg of the "E" being 10 feet. The legs of the "E" are only 2 feet apart [using three foot corners, four feet if using the four foot corners] but people do not have to physically stand in front of each module. In fact the idea of a train moving away from you then coming back gets away from the round and round idea of the rectangular layouts. Unfortunately you will need a room wider than 20 feet to do that. However, I do envy you as our club lost our room of about that same size two years ago and we are now homeless so no matter how small the room is it is a big loss when you lose it.
Dealing with liability insurance claims I see the darker side of society, it's a shame when you have to deal with them during you hobby too. My buddy that has the Kearney & Black Hills has collected models or european trains he's riden on over the years. He has them on display shelves over his staging yards. He had a couple of small groups over to see the layout one day, a few days later he noticed a conspicuous hole in one othose consists. One of the guests grabbed the car and left with it. I'm amazed that any of these people or clubs invite guests over.
Sorry, Inky, I don't know the exact dimensions. I'll guess 20 x 40 feet, maybe a little less. </font>[/QUOTE]Get a bigger room or change your name to Shorttrain. Seriously though, the old rectangular Ntrak layoutrs eat up a lot of space with most of it in the interior where it is of little benefit. In our setups we have gone to an "L" shape which takes up only 55% of the space of a rectangular layout. We are considering an "E" shape as well with the depth of each leg of the "E" being 10 feet. The legs of the "E" are only 2 feet apart [using three foot corners, four feet if using the four foot corners] but people do not have to physically stand in front of each module. In fact the idea of a train moving away from you then coming back gets away from the round and round idea of the rectangular layouts. Unfortunately you will need a room wider than 20 feet to do that. However, I do envy you as our club lost our room of about that same size two years ago and we are now homeless so no matter how small the room is it is a big loss when you lose it. </font>[/QUOTE]Shortrain is good. Actually, I do run the long trains on that layout, and 120 cars reaches almost exactly halfway around. But about half the time, my trains are a group of 3 or 4 "shorties" of 33-35 cars in length......and during the last few minutes of the 4 hour shift, I often combine them into one long train for a grand finale. Guests will return to see the long train run. The problem with anything but a rectangle in that room is the location of the vertical timber support posts for the open truss roof. The building is Arizona territorial adobe construction, and is a registered historical property, so we have the choice of using what the City of Scottsdale Department of Parks and Recreation so generously provides "as is", or finding new quarters at our own expense. The park sits on millions of dollars worth of prime real estate, donated by The Stillman family for that exact purpose, and none other. If Sun'N'Sand could sell 100,000 MT cattle cars at $15 each, it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the value of we have available to use, just by complying with the terms of our agreement with the City. We are very, very fortunate to have such a facility, even if it is too small. PS for MCJaco - in our annual club budget, liability insurance to protect the club from our guests is our largest expense.
Now I'm nervous. Reading these posts has opened up my eyes and brought me to the conclusion for what I'm about to do, and that is Plexi or no show what-so-ever. I live in a country where even though to the masses a fully detailed layout is an awesome sight, it is also a waste of money because they can't see how someone can be spending so much and getting back little or nothing. They can't imagine, not even for a second, that something so small can be that expensive. When these people see a train running by they can't help hold the rear car, you know the, ‘I'm just checking to see how strong the engine is’. Totally oblivious that the train is derailing all over the place. Not to mention ‘Can this thing come off?, Shoooooot! I didn't know that it would've broken off’. Man, I'm so paranoid now that I'm gonna put Plexi all around it. I can deal will replacing the plexi due to scratches. Every last piece of n scale equipment I own is a prized possession and I plan on having them around for a long time. I quite sure the everyone feels the same like I do about theirs.
