I completely "get it" what you are saying and mostly agree. But like you, I was pretty taken aback by the Bad Boy Bikers compared to what the picture shows. But yes, I do think people expect the "G-scale" photos to be like real life and in n-scale that's (a) not possible and (b) not necessarily needed. While the Bad Boy Bikers set wouldn't stand up to photography very well, they actually look fine as a part of scenery on the layout. I tend to believe that the focus falls on the locos and other rolling stock anyway, so putting everything under a microscope isn't a requirement in my book. Having said that, I still think they should denote photos as HO-scale, and at least try to make the effort to post n-scale pics...they don't have to be 10x zoom showing all the warts--or lack thereof. ;-)
+1 My assumption is that this is the case most of the time and like alot of things, everyone moves on to the next new project before the loose ends are tied up on the previous one and things like updating product images fall through the cracks. It's not a conspiracy or deliberate attack on N scale, it might be lazy i guess, but it's most likely the HO images are intended to be temporary placeholders that become permanent fixtures. You all know what "Temporary" really means!
Everyone knows images of HO models are sometimes substituted for N scale so starting more threads isn't neccesary. I suggest rather than complaining on forums and starting negative threads, you instead contact the distributors and manufacturers directly with your concern. Cite examples from their own product line. Don't threaten legal action, and don't be an a hole about it, do inquire with a polite well mannered letter that's coherent and uses complete thoughts and proper grammer. You may not like the response you get, but you will get a response, and it will be from someone who may actually have the answer!
The PC steam engine decals were just for fun. And then look what happened when they did Chessie System steam decals...
This would be the simplest solution. Easy enough to accomplish. It does happen, but all too often, it does not.
I'm not a lawyer but I can't read anything in the section of Trainboard policy regarding mentioning dealers that outright prohibits using information on their sites for purposes such as this. I and others often link to Photos from Japanese dealer Hobby Search's website to illustrate Japanese models as in the recent thread about Kato's planned freight car sets because that dealer quite honestly has the best photos of the available products.
I don't know what the discussion on certain dealers images being censored because they are not advertisers on certain forums is about, but if it's about the links directly to images on woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com not working it should be noted that it is woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com who is blocking direct access to their images and its common practice to keep people from hyperlinking your images out of context. Their webserver checks the referrer http header when a request is made for an image and if it's not woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com then no image for you.
Maybe the "HO picture works for all " philosophy worked in the 70's and 80s, when products were not as advanced. Back then cars both HO and N came out with molded-on ladders and bas-relief underbody detail,thick roofwalks and huge stirrups, non-opening doors, and dunk-painted in the same range of railroads: Santa Fe, Pennsylvania, Great Northern, NYC, and other big RRs, whether they ever had cars like that or not. But with today's super-fine body casting and the wealth of added detail, road-specific items and lettering, and micro-pad-printing, the "same" HO and N cars look only remotely similar. MU hoses, stand-along grabirons, see-through screens and fan housings, and a whole range of details vary greatly now from HO to N -- and especially since we're paying upwards of $30-$40 dollars for N freight cars and over $100 for locos, I'd say it's time to have actual pictures of the actual scale cars because we ARE paying for the detail -- and if it's on the HO car and not the N, we're getting ripped off.
You make valid points, I don't disagree that manufacturers should use actual product photos. You'd get better traction though by contacting the manufacturers, distributors, and retailers directly with your concern vs posting it on message boards. Here you're some anonymous poster in a sea of others, but in a direct communication you're a real customer with a valid concern.
However...Paul from Atlas has replied on this thread (Thank you Paul). So manufactures do read these forums. A single customer sending an inquiry can easly be ignored and their email deleted. Pages of complaints on a forum or other social media tends to get their attention. Its hard to ignore discussion forum threads they cant delete. JMHO.
I think Paul from Atlas participating here is fantastic and I do appreciate when he chimes in to set the record straight, but Atlas is the exception rather than the rule, and I doubt even Atlas takes what they read here without a helping of salt. Forums and message boards and other forms of "social media" are mostly smoke and no fire. The best method to air concerns is to go directly to the source. There is no reason to believe that your concern would be ignored or deleted. Your concern has a much higher probability of being seen by someone who can actually help if you contact the involved party directly. If you've tried to contact one of the manufacturers and they have not responded, or their response did not satisfy you, you might find some support by getting other people who share your opinion to join in. You have to be clear in your intent though, a rant on a forum doesn't' motivate change. A clear concern with actionable plan for other concerned parties to join does.
I think the point being made is that when Brand X models brings out a car and posts a photo of a HO model on their website we can't link to or post a photo of the actual N scale model from Bill Blogg's Model Shop to show what the N scale version is like. Some N scale models these days are better than HO from some manufacturers so actual photos would help sales and bring new converts to N scale but those manufacturers are tghe ones who usually post photos as soon as they are available anyway.
Agreed - and this question was posed to one of the mods. The response was that links to pages from websites from certain non-advertising dealers are blanked out in deference to the paid advertisers. The possibilty of screening the links to distinguish between those that are just photos versus those that are to actual items for sale was deemed unfeasible. It is what it is, as they say.
Really? When I was writing regularly for a multi-scale RR mag I suggested to the editor the advertising department might ask all advertisers to include the scale of the item they were selling -- so many ads were, I assume, assumed to be HO (for whatever reason) but were not marked in any such way. Sounds like a simple request, right? Jeez, just stick a little balloon or in heavy print on the ad somewhere saying "HO Scale", "N Scale", etc? The editor -- of a magazine that dealt on a business level with railroad manufacturers -- told me they'd been trying for years to get all their advertisers to do that, to no avail. And you think a couple of N scalers writing these companies will have more impact? The reason this goes on is the subconscious clinging to the "old ways" of doing things, period. If a company "forgets" to take a picture of the actual model they're selling, if they "just don't think about" putting the scale designation in their ads, then they're wrong. WRONG. In this day of vanishing LHS and lone wolf modellers, where are the newbies going to get the facts? Yeah, sure, us hardened N vets can tell right away from subtle clues in the picture that it's not an N model, but who teaches the newbie? The lesson of getting the wrong scale model by mail? There are a lot of out-moded practices and methods in model railroading, but this one is frustrating because with a minimum of effort it could be eliminated. Why it isn't is beyond me.
I hate to stray, but what exactly was the "Penn Central Steam" decal thing ??? This is new to me. Again, sorry for straying !!!
So on page 4 we finally get the rest of the story behind your initial post. Good information, puzzles me why you wouldn't have included earlier so we all might better understand where you're coming from. Up until now this thread has been a typical message board rant and associated negative commentary. I'm curious, when you were writing regularly, was it the 50's or 1999 (question not intended to be a dig at you, just wondering if it was recently or a while ago) If you didn't get any traction at that time it's possible the atmosphere has changed and triggering a new movement for change would be effective this time around. Granted a new movement for change can't be arbitrary forum rants, it has to be a somewhat organized execution, and I still maintain that the most effective course of action is for concerned peoples need to all be contacting the manufacturers et. al. directly with similar requests. It would not help to put a note card on the bulletin board at your barber shop that says "I'm sick and tired of HO product photos being used as stand ins for N!!! Anyone interested in complaining about this amongst ourselves please chime in!" but it would certainly help to put one up that says "I'm sick and tired of it, and I'm writing to all the manufacturers I've caught doing it to let them know that I don't think it's right. If anyone would like to join me or get a copy of the messages I've been sending contact me. Together we can get this fixed!" Likewise, if anyone is looking for an answer as to why exactly this occurs, contacting the manufacturer is the only way to find out. Asking here will only generate speculation and hearsay with little or no fact behind it. An interesting thread might start with a post like "Hey guys, I contacted Woodland Scenics about why they use HO images as stand ins for N products and here's what they said" ensuing discussion would be based on a factual statement.
Me too! Especially blwnscale does it! For atlas stuff too! All the atlas stuff in ho is shiny realistic metal wheels, n scale is brown clumsy looking plastic wheels! Maybe they do it so that if you're an n scaler you have to admire all the "upgrades" of ho scale? Not fair! Also a discriminated against n scaler:angry:
A few years back, when Walthers was among THE top places for decals, Walthers casually ran an ad for steam locomotive decals for the Penn Central roadname. A furious controversy rose. The Pennsylvania Railroad and New York Central merged to form Penn Central long after all their steam locomotives were phased out. So there never were any Penn Central steam locomotives. Critics howled that Penn Central steam loco decals were therefore unprototypical, unrealistic, inaccurate. A few went as far as to claim that advertising decals for a prototype that did not exist was downright fraudulent. Walthers responded with a note that their ad for Penn Central steam decals included a note that they were "for those who want one." They said they had received requests for modelers who WANTED decals to letter steamers for PC (where PC does not stand for "prototypically correct" ) and so they made them, knowing full well that it was a fantasy design. A comment was printed (I don't remember whether in a Walthers ad or catalogue or in the editorial matter of a model magazine) with an artist's conception of an imaginary Penn Central steamer. So that's the "thing" on the Penn Central steam decals. Part of the ongoing tradition of fun railroad modeling, along with the Lionel giraffe car, Micro Trains Lines state cars and licensed sports team cars from various manufacturers.
The above who said that ho scale picture shown is enticing is true I have to admit. HO scale pictures feature weatherd metal wheels for example, and n scale ones feature clumsy brown plastic wheels. It seems reasonable to get quicker sales, but it just further illustrates the disparity between HO and N and how much we are missing out in n. I believe that if n scale is improved (at least add metal wheels for pete's sake) then they will stop doing the "HO picture shown" thing. Don't get off topic from this but on ebay like a thousand HO scale things are miscategorized as n scale (multiple times per search) but not the other way around?! Just shows how much people admire HO
